Posted on 01/11/2009 11:49:33 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
Thank you. I wasn't my personal experience, though, it was that of Don Matzat, a Luthern pastor.
"I advise anyone seriously interested in biblical prophecy to clear their bookshelves of the sensationalist prophecy books and take an unbiased look at what the Bible actually says."
I agree. For instance: [...] Daniel 7:13-14: "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
With this passage we return to the main subject of our eschatology project. We know that the Son of Man envisioned here is Christ.
What should be especially noted for our purposes is the Son of Man's mode of transportation, and the direction he is going in.
The Son of Man is riding with "the clouds of heaven" (the LXX has the Son of Man actually "on" the clouds) and heading towards the Ancient of Days to be enthroned.
[...]
Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
We believe that this refers to the established rule of Christ in 70 AD and will address this matter, again, in our Olivet study.
With this Daniel 7 comes to a close, but there are a few more verses we need to consider. Our study continues in Daniel 9, with part of the "70 weeks" prophecy. Daniel 9:24-27 is of concern:
[....]
The dispensational paradigm holds that this 70th week is on hold until a future time called the Tribulation. I disagree. ...
..Gerhard Hasel in a study for Andrews University Seminary Studies titled "The Hebrew Masculine Plural For 'Weeks'..." notes that the grammar of the verse is done in a way that is "purposeful and by design so as to stress the unitary whole, the totality, and the completeness" of the 70 week block. The weeks "cannot be split apart in such a way as to separate the final 'one week' " as dispensationalists require. [....]
“Matchett, I enjoyed your recounting of the “pre-mil” evolution.” ~ norge
Thank you!
“Thanks for posting that!! Its scary how widely accepted the rapture doctrine has become , as a result of faulty teaching by the churches, the Left Behind series etc..” ~ HailReagan78
You’re welcome. I agree.
For those interested:
“Eons ago I recall getting from a “turn or burn” relative one of those neat brochures that outlined an interpretation of the book of Revelation with pictures of people being “raptured” and trucks and cars and planes crashing as souls flew out of the driver’s/pilot’s places. I have of course read my Hal Lindsey, but since taking a more scholarly bent to my studies, haven’t thought much about it. I have said to others, if the parousia comes in my lifetime, it shall find me either asleep or in a library somewhere. The subject was of that little concern to me.
But it has become clear that certain questions dealing with eschatology, in particular the questions, “Did Jesus predict a soon return? Did the Apostles expect a soon return?”, have become grist for the skeptical and critical mill. Of course we know well that skeptics of the caliber of say, Farrell Till, are about as likely to understand what they are reading as they are to understand quantum physics. But I have corresponded with at least one person who has said that they were “losing their faith” over this very question, and I am sure others exist as well. [...]”
Continued:
Essays on Eschatology
James Patrick Holding
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschatology.html
I must have missed that in history class. Exactly when did the Russian and German armies invade Israel from the north and suffer nuclear annihilation with a 7 year cleanup period by the Israelis?
It will always be the same some are so mired in Tradition of Men all they can echo is a variations of from their repetor which plays over and over johnny one note!
There is no reply of why their Tradition of Men have substance or value!
Boy, you sure do like to jump to conclusions. I’m done debating with someone like you. Good day.
No doubt.
Exactly when did the Russian and German armies invade Israel from the north and suffer nuclear annihilation with a 7 year cleanup period by the Israelis?
That’s funny. Thanks for the humorous thought for the day.
I wasn’t the one trying to relate Paul and Babylon or Saddam. Maybe that is the core area of confusion.
Now do you hold that in Christ Jesus there is neither male nor female? Or do you think the male still has the superior role?
Note the context in Gal. 3:28,29 and tell me what you think.
Well...
Just WHO cannot agree with that!
It was to show thedispensational model of prophecy in a picture. It seems you have not settled with God yet. I am here to settle nothing.
Fixed it.
You do know by now, don't you, that there are different interpretations? I gave a link to one, upthread.
In what way do you think I have not "settled with God"? Read this on "making it personal".
" notes that the grammar of the verse is done in a way that is "purposeful and by design so as to stress the unitary whole, the totality, and the completeness" of the 70 week block. The weeks "cannot be split apart in such a way as to separate the final 'one week' " as dispensationalists require. [....]
Ohhh. That had to hurt. :-).
We have been cheated, and hornswoggled into becoming unpaid cheerleaders for the other team. As an orthodox Christian of the Reformed flavor, I anticipate, with all of God's people, a final resurrection and the life everlasting, Amen. With the soberest and sanest of all God's people, I also view the Olivet Discourse and John's Revelation as prophecy -- to the generation that first read them, and as a record of fulfilled prophecy for us. My eschatology is summarized neatly by I Cor. 15:25-35, a meditation on Psalm 110 (the most frequently quoted, cited, and referenced OT chapter in all the NT). Jesus is ruling now, subduing His enemies one by one, just as he subdued you and me. He has commanded us and empowered us to bring the nations to heel. The future is filled with opportunities to glorify God and to rejoice in His victories over all comers. And we have a piece of the action. We can do something more than grab the popcorn and beach chairs, then sit back to watch the train wreck.
Don’t know that its already happened in the past, I did read most of that article you(?) posted and found the future date pretty compelling. I’ve not researched it yet but its definitely interesting.
JB
I wasn’t the one trying to relate Paul and Babylon or Saddam. Maybe that is the core area of confusion.
Paul was predestined to be the writer of the majority of the New Testament and no other writer of the New Testament had the 'core' education of the OLD from which to pen the so called NEW. Hey we, you and I are about to find out just how important it is to consider that 'OLD' relevant in these days. I plan to be as prepared given how many times these New Testament writers quoted that supposed 'OLD'.
Old Saddam miscalculated in his goal to reenact old Neb the first noted king of Babylon, but hey his bricks and mortar of recreating that 'ancient' city still stand as the coalition left the majority intact. Maybe Germany can be convinced to return that Ishtar gate for some 'egg' rolling.
Now do you hold that in Christ Jesus there is neither male nor female? Or do you think the male still has the superior role?
Note the context in Gal. 3:28,29 and tell me what you think.
NOT an answer to the question presented. I know the men of this age view the women as chatters to be silent and not nearly of the standing of the men.
I must have missed it too.
The answer is in the context of the passage cited. Can you interpret the text?
I'm just curious whether you are searching or plain argumentative.
No one ever accused them of sound exegesis.
"purposeful and by design so as to stress the unitary whole, the totality, and the completeness" of the 70 week block. The weeks "cannot be split apart in such a way as to separate the final 'one week' " as dispensationalists require. [....]
Seventy sevens == ten jubilees. "When the time had fully come."
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