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To: thatjoeguy; TaraP
From Kenneth Gentry:
Nero and Nero alone fits the bill as the specific or personal expression of the Beast. This vile character fulfills all the requirements of the principles derived from the very text of Revelation itself. Those principles are particularly abundant in Revelation 13. Notice:

First, in Revelation 13:18 the number of the Beast is the number of "a man" and that number is "666." Now the usefulness of this number lies in the fact that in ancient days alphabets served a two-fold purpose. Letters functioned, of course, as phonetic symbols. As such, they functioned just as our modern alphabet. But in ancient times letters also served as numerals, in that the Arabic numbering system was a later development of history.

A Hebrew spelling of Nero Caesar's name was Nrwn Qsr n, e,r, o, n; q, s, r. It has been documented by archaeological finds that a first century Hebrew spelling of Nero's name provides us with precisely the value of 666. Is it not remarkable that this most relevant emperor has a name that fits precisely the required sum? Is this sheer historical accident? But there is more.

Second, the textual variant. If you consult a Bible with marginal references you may notice something of interest regarding Revelation 13:18. Your reference may say something to the effect: "Some manuscripts read 616." The fact is that the number 666 in some ancient manuscripts of Scripture is actually changed to 616. But why? Was it changed accidentally, or on purpose?

The difference surely is no accident of sight made by an early copiest. The numbers 666 and 616 are not even similar in appearance in the original Greek--whether spelled out in words or written out as numerals. As textual scholars agree, it must be intentional.

A strong and most reasonable case may be made for the following probability. John, a Jew, used a Hebrew spelling of Nero's name in order to arrive at the figure 666. But when Revelation began circulating among those less acquainted with Hebrew, a well-meaning copiest who knew the meaning of 666 might have intended to make its deciphering easier by altering it to 616. It surely is no mere coincidence that 616 is the numerical value of "Nero Caesar," when spelled in Hebrew by transliterating it from its more widely familiar Latin spelling.

The Beast of Revelation Identified

One question asked of me by a dispensationalist after the Revelation presentation was: "If John is writing to gentile churches in Asia Minor, how could he expect them to understand that the name hidden in the cipher "666" had to be spelled in Hebrew in order to give the correct evaluation?" This was asked in light of my arguing that 666 referred to Nero Caesar, as spelled in Hebrew characters.

My response was: (1) This "problem" of Hebrew demands in a gentile letter is not unique to deciphering 666. The entire Revelation is written in such a Hebrew cast that R. H. Charles and David E. Aune had to produce special Greek grammars for Revelation. This is necessary because Revelation is written in a very Hebraic-impacted Greek. (2) Other words and images appearing in Revelation are strongly Judaic and, therefore, not within the thinking pattern of gentile Christians. Nevertheless, John sent them in his Revelation. (4) The theme and thrust of Revelation is a "clue" to such a need. That is, the theme (1:7) and point (God's divorce of Israel) point directly to a Judaic setting.

Dispensationalism in Transition


34 posted on 01/13/2009 11:27:06 AM PST by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends become dispensationalists.")
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To: topcat54
God's divorce of Israel

Excuse me, but I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that God is finished with Israel?

37 posted on 01/13/2009 1:46:59 PM PST by Former Fetus
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To: topcat54; TaraP

All this being said we must remember that John wrote Revelations nearly 30 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem. I don’t see any point to comparing or claiming Nero was the anti-christ.

Also the oldest manuscripts all used just three letters in giving the number. This does two things, not only are we told the amount (666) but also how to add up the name. And as early as 150AD, less then 60 years after Revelations was written (that’s like us checking out a book written in the 50s) we have confirmation of the correct number. Any reference to the number 616 was simple a mistake in the manuscripts.

And lastly John wrote Revelations in Greek, there is no need to convert the names to Hebrew.

JB


40 posted on 01/13/2009 3:58:19 PM PST by thatjoeguy (Just my thoughts)
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To: topcat54; thatjoeguy; TaraP; Quix
Now HERE is what I consider to be a jaw-dropping possibility for the actual meaning of Revelation 13:18.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
— Rev. 13:18 KJV

In the image below, the figures at the top are Arabic for "in the name of Allah". Below that are the three letters from the Greek Codex Vaticanus [ca. 350AD] that stand for the "number" that the KJV renders "666".

Take each Arabic character, rotate it 90-degrees counterclockwise, then mirror it. The result is shockingly similar to the Greek. The theory is that what John saw, he faithfully replicated on his parchment, but a subsequent scribe mistook the Arabic characters for malformed Greek ones, and substituted proper Greek letters in place of the Arabic.

Just a theory, but -- yikes! What a stunner!

91 posted on 01/15/2009 11:52:23 PM PST by HKMk23 (A million US GI's ended tyranny in Europe, but one Muslim in the Oval Office may bring it here.)
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