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"In his 1976 book The Soon to be Revealed Antichrist Smith wrote, “we are living in the last generation which began with the rebirth of Israel in 1948 (see Matt. 24:32–34).” You will search in vain in the three verse’s Smith references to find any mention of “the rebirth of Israel.” " ...

"Smith wrote in 1980 that from his “understanding of biblical prophecies, he was “convinced that the Lord [would come] for His Church before the end of 1981.” He did add that he “could be wrong” but went on to say in the same sentence that “it’s a deep conviction in my heart, and all my plans are predicated upon that belief.”[5] Notice the last statement. He may have voiced some doubts, but actions speak louder than words. " ...

"In addition to some very specific prophetic predictions, Smith claimed that “the rapture is at hand.”[9] His 1976 book on the antichrist states that he will be revealed “soon.”" ...

"As a futurist, Smith “believes that Revelation says what it means and means what it says, and he or she does not need to twist its words to make them fit any particular doctrine. The futurist believes this book is to be taken at face value. . . .”[14]" ...

"Those who came to hear these men speak on the topic of Bible prophecy did not hear a word about the failed prophecies of Hal Lindsey and Chuck Smith and so many other prophecy “experts” before them. The attendees most assuredly walked away under the delusion that they are living in the final generation that will experience the rapture. They most likely told that the world is in a death spiral and there is nothing to be done except to be taken to heaven in a “rapture.” Of course, the participants were assured that all of the end-time rhetoric they heard was based solidly on the “literal interpretation of the Bible.” If I remember correctly, that’s what prophecy speculators have been saying for generations! None of this matters, since the people who attend these conferences have no sense of prophetic history, and this is what the prophecy writers depend on so they can sell their prophecy books and stay in business."

1 posted on 02/24/2009 10:10:12 AM PST by topcat54
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To: ItsOurTimeNow; HarleyD; suzyjaruki; nobdysfool; jkl1122; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
Reformed Eschatology Ping List (REPL)
Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based

"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)

2 posted on 02/24/2009 10:10:42 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54

I am the only true prophet; I’ve recently prophesized that there will appear more prophets who will predict the end of times, the end of the world and the invasion of the planet by scaly space aliens.

If you would like to know more about my awesome predictions; send $19.95 via Paypal to www.tunaforthecrackpotsoul.nod

4 posted on 02/24/2009 10:20:26 AM PST by glide625 (liked, but not well liked.)
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To: topcat54

Know one knows the day or hour The Lord will return but Jesus told us the signs to watch for and warned us to be ready. Live like he’s coming today plan like he’s coming 100 years from now. Though I doubt it’ll be a 100 years, there’s too many countries getting the bomb - either them or terrorists will sooner or later set one off which will lead to WW3.

5 posted on 02/24/2009 10:30:14 AM PST by Smittie
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To: topcat54
Looks like Smith just revealed himself as the antichrist- or just a very bad writer.
18 posted on 02/24/2009 4:28:58 PM PST by rintense (Go Israel!)
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To: topcat54


THANKS for giving their efforts some more publicity.

Of course, some of us realize that not all “Christians” are able or willing to rise to the level of teaching and understanding so wonderuflly demonstrated by


35 posted on 02/25/2009 9:00:49 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt:
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Once again:

Interesting title - oh!
Click in
Gary deMar - ohhh
Click out

40 posted on 02/25/2009 9:11:09 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: topcat54
Matthew 24:36-44 (New American Standard Bible)

36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Be Ready for His Coming

42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.

43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.

44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.


Mark 13:32-37 (New American Standard Bible)

32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

33 "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.

34 "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.

35 "Therefore, be on the alert--for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--

36 in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.

37 "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"


Luke 17:26-36 (New American Standard Bible)

26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.

32 "Remember Lot's wife.

33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.

35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.

36 ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

41 posted on 02/25/2009 9:13:40 AM PST by PureSolace (Trust in God)
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To: topcat54

This is just a general comment.

I believe these are the “end times” and that Christ will return soon. I don’t totally disagree with the preterist doctrine but I see this as a second end time that completes the historical age and brings in the Kingdom age.

The signs of the end times are fairly obvious, the rise of a false religion, the widespread belief in a delusion (global warming), the appearance in power of a figure who is clearly in the spirit of antichrist, if not “the” antichrist (a figure who may not actually exist, the Bible is more specific about many antichrists and “the lawless one”) ... and I also believe that America is important in prophecy, that just as Old Testament prophecy was centered on Israel and the Jews, New Testament prophecy is centered on the “west” and Christians, meaning that America is very important to prophecy.

This is a time when all true believers need to make common cause against these very powerful worldly enemies. There is no point in evangelicals, conservative Catholics, Mormons, conservative Jews etc, arguing among themselves about who has the perfect vision of truth, when the world system around all of us seeks to destroy all of us together, without regard for those differences.

And as for atheists or those of weak belief who still see the turn of history represented by prophecy, this is a time to seek spiritual counsel and “get right with the Lord” because the time may be very close at hand.

Watch and pray.

172 posted on 02/26/2009 12:44:57 PM PST by Peter ODonnell
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To: topcat54
One thing that all these “prophets” have in common; they are all wrong. We have been living in the last days for nearly two thousand years. If doesn't matter how many times people such as Hal Lindsey and others are wrong, for people will continue to follow them. It seems that for some Christians the Antichrist gets more attention than Christ. Forget all this fascination with trying to discern the “end times,” and focus on what God is doing through Christ Jesus.
182 posted on 02/26/2009 4:26:29 PM PST by Nosterrex
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To: topcat54
“Chuck Smith preached on December 31, 1979. He told his very accepting audience on that day that the rapture would take place in 1981.”

In the 1970’s there was allot of this going on from the pulpits and from Christian writers. Christian book stores had shelves full of end-time prophecy books. Many of us got caught up in reading those books. Nothing wrong with that, after all we could see it was a rapidly changing world and things did seem to be lining up for the great conclusion of world events. Picking dates things were to happen though was not a smart move and Smith joined many others who did so. Which leads me to this question. Why are we picking on him these many years later?

222 posted on 03/02/2009 5:28:39 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: topcat54
I don't want to get caught up in this useless debate on exactly what was prophecy saying about how the end times would play out. We come from different churches, and its not expected that we all think the same way on this subject. As long as we believe in the essentials of what being a Christian is. Seems every time the subject of Bible prophecy comes up on FR, we get in this win less battle of who's right. That's pretty sad.

I do want to say though, that back in the 1970’s and early 80’s when I got caught up into reading the shelves full of Bible prophecy books, some of the things being written about was very obvious, but other things like a cashless society where you could use one card to purchase from any country in the World, and the coming Antichrist. How could one person be so popular he would be accepted around the world and by all but the strongest Christians will be fooled? Both seems far fetched at the time. Both were mysteries.

Not any more. I now go around all the time with no paper cash in my wallet, and with Obama coming out of nowhere to being literally worshiped by millions, thought the world, that mystery has been solved. Not saying Obama is the Antichrist, but it does show you how quickly and easily the real One can enter the World stage.

224 posted on 03/02/2009 5:57:02 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: topcat54

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

This is the attitude I’ve found for most “pre trib rapture” fans. When shown countless examples of how pre-trib rapture promoters have falsely predicted the 2nd coming of Christ in the past, they will shrug their shoulders and say at least one, if not more than one of the following:

1. Doesn’t matter. I’m not beholden to a “man”, I’m beholden to the Bible and Christ.

2. No where does the Bible say that it’s forbidden to predict a time FRAME of when Christ will return. We’re just not allowed to predict an exact hour and day. Sure this guy was wrong about HIS time frame, but who’s to say Pastor X (insert name of favorite “prophet” here) is wrong?

3. Scripture tells us of certain signs that will precede His Return! Don’t you believe in following all of Scripture, and “being ready” for His return? (here of course the fan is falsely equating “being ready for His Return” with assigning current events to Biblical prophecies, esp from Rev and Dan, even though throughout much of Church history, exegetically speaking this was a no-no, not only because for most of Church history, the Church was quite a-millenial in her eschatological concerns, but also because to “be ready” for His Return simply meant keeping in a state of grace (friendship with God), NOT keeping up on current events)

Of course, what all 3 of these reactions give the person saying them is a virtual “carte-blanche” to continue to believe in any prophet that may come down the road, asking one simply to “buy the book to find out more”. There’s no “falsification” of the entire concept of “pre-tribulation rapture” possible; it’s impossible to disprove the very notion, given the excuses above. This alone should give one pause, for this is a dangerous blank check, not only for one’s finances but for one’s spiritual health. It’s a vicious cycle that feeds on itself.

Typically, with all due respect to such believers, those who cling to a “pre-trib rapture” eschatology have a life that is full of hardship, be it mental, physical or spiritual. This then becomes their “last hope”, and also becomes something to look forward to for their entire life. A glorious “snatching away” where all their pain will be gone in an instant.

However, if I may be so bold, this is not traditional Christianity. In Christianity, we *are* expected to suffer, as we not only walk toward God, but work toward a better world here. Our faith isn’t to be some kind of magic pill that, if not “today”, “someday” will make all our pain go away. Our faith is to sustain us, until our death in Christ, OR until He returns again, for THE final judgement, not multiple judgements.

For the last 2,000 years, there have been plenty who have suffered greatly in the Body of Christ. I submit it would be “favoritism” on God’s part to suddenly snatch away one generation from its suffering, while others “ran the race to the end” in times past. As we know however, “God is not a respecter of persons”.

Just something to think about. If points 1-3 don’t give the pre-tribber reading this cause for pause.

317 posted on 03/05/2009 11:00:06 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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