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To: marshmallow
I don't believe St. Paul's admonition was directed to those who had already taken a solemn vow to remain celibate. Rather, he is instructing Christians not to enter lightly into the celibate state. Thus, if there are any doubts about self-control, they should marry. He is not counseling Christians to break their vows.

What would you suggest? That Fr. Cutie be locked in a cell? The likelihood is that even if the spirit was willing, the flesh was weak.

Celibacy is a discipline, as you rightly note. A difficult one. However, thousands of holy men and women have given witness to its value and glory to God for over two thousand years.

And many, many of them have fallen short, too. This is one of those things that drive me nuts. Here you are, pontificating on how another person should stick to a discipline that you are unwilling to undertake for yourself. You don't even know the extent to which he wrestled with it, nor the strength of the temptation that drew him away. But, safe in your position of never having to deal with it yourself, you feel safe in judging him for his failure.

Today's world sees it as ridiculous but it is a poor judge. The world of unrestrained sexuality finds it impossible to understand.

Jesus understands this man's difficulties. You, apparently, know better.

19 posted on 05/29/2009 9:03:36 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb

Garth Brooks wrote a song called “Standing outside the Fire”. He referred to those who could not resist the flames of the fire, actually trying to live life beign crticized by those who did stay away from it.

Real men and women are often muddy, bloody, tired, and threadbare, even if just in a metaphorical sense. It’s near to pointless trying to convince those who stand on the outside without a stain on them.


24 posted on 05/29/2009 9:29:22 AM PDT by Hawk1976 (It is better to die in battle than it is to live as a slave.)
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To: r9etb
What would you suggest? That Fr. Cutie be locked in a cell? The likelihood is that even if the spirit was willing, the flesh was weak.

The flesh is always weak. What Fr. Cutie is experiencing is not unique. In fact, I would say that every priest is tested and tempted with desires of the flesh. Certainly, the writings of the saints uphold this point of view. St. Francis of Assisi actually threw himself in the snow in an attempt to overcome temptation.

And many, many of them have fallen short, too.

And many people break their vows of fidelity to their spouses, also.

What's your point?

This is one of those things that drive me nuts. Here you are, pontificating on how another person should stick to a discipline that you are unwilling to undertake for yourself.

That's a tired, vacuous argument which is a) inaccurate and b) irrelevant.

Nobody is pontificating. Vows are a promise made voluntarilybefore God, just as you and I voluntarily promised to be faithful to our spouses. Many people find marital vows too difficult, also. Increasingly so today, apparently. Do we follow your line of reasoning and cut them some slack, too? After all, monogamy is unnatural, right? Look around you.

As for being "unwilling to undertake celibacy", you have utterly no idea what I have undertaken nor undertake. If I chose the married lifestyle, it was not because I "needed to get some", to use the gross vernacular nor because I was "on fire" to use St. Paul's expression.

You don't even know the extent to which he wrestled with it, nor the strength of the temptation that drew him away. But, safe in your position of never having to deal with it yourself, you feel safe in judging him for his failure.

So you're saying that if temptation rises to a certain arbitrary level, vows may be dispensed with and we all get a mulligan?

What of those men and women who've confronted exactly the same temptations (and they are numerous), prayed and sacrificed and done themselves violence in order to persevere in their vows? What do you say to them? "Dumbasses! Why didn't you just take the easy way out and forget the vows?"

Cutie caused scandal but only God can judge him. His case is further support for the words of St.Paul.

38 posted on 05/29/2009 11:10:27 AM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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