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1 posted on 06/02/2009 3:33:50 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: John Leland 1789

It is rather arrogant to even imply that God will remove his grace and mercy on someone because of the way you view their politics.

Trying to coerce political behavior in the name of God is one of the slimiest things so called Conservatives do.


2 posted on 06/02/2009 3:38:08 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Defending RINOs is the same as defending Liberals.)
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To: John Leland 1789

Protectionism is tyranny.

You have no right to tell me what I can and can not purchase.

Also, as corrupt and criminal as the American Labor Unions have become, we MUST have a way to avoid supporting them, even if it means, sometimes, a foreign competitor.


3 posted on 06/02/2009 3:43:06 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: John Leland 1789
It is obvious that the lust for wealth drives many so called, conservative, leaders. They've pandered to us for our votes, but now, when they think more votes will come from other sources, we are told we aren't needed, and accused of hurting the party.

My principles aren't for sale.

I look at my grandson every day, and it reminds me that my duty is now to pave his way as best I can, not to worry about my comfort. I can't leave much material wealth, best I can do is try to pass on freedom.

4 posted on 06/02/2009 3:45:29 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: John Leland 1789

You would have been a lot better of simply stating that greed (gluttony) is a sin without tying it to politics.

As far as globalists are concerned, only they can figure out where they’re loyalties lie.


5 posted on 06/02/2009 3:48:42 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: John Leland 1789
Somehow, I don't think G-d is whispering your ear about who He will protect and who will be going it alone.

Do I hear a loon?

9 posted on 06/02/2009 3:57:16 AM PDT by muir_redwoods ( Hey, remember the last head of state who dictated the design of automobiles?)
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To: John Leland 1789

The constitution does not give the Federal gov’t. authority to legislate any kind of social behavior. That is a matter for state legislatures entierly.

Frankly, I’d rather leave it that way than say something like: Ok Liberals, you’ve had your fun stomping all over the constitution, now we’re going to do it our way.

I see the problem as not being a lack of morals in Washington, but the very fact that it believes it can impose whatever kind of morals or lack thereof on society at will.


14 posted on 06/02/2009 4:27:10 AM PDT by dajeeps
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To: John Leland 1789

This is Good Stuff!


16 posted on 06/02/2009 5:11:09 AM PDT by RaceBannon (We have sown the wind, but we will reap the whirlwind. NObama. Not my president.)
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To: John Leland 1789

You’re on the same list as you put Dick Cheney and others of whom you disapprove, no matter how pious you think you are. We’re all on it.


18 posted on 06/02/2009 5:23:52 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: John Leland 1789
like it or not, the American nation began with the Bible and Christianity being brought on to the shores of the continent by Protestant Christians.

I'm curious what you mean here. Surely you are aware that the Spanish and the French were evangelizing on American soil before the English/Dutch/Swedish. Heck, even the Russian Orthodox had a respectable claim to the Northwest. And the English colonies weren't even exclusively Protestant either--Maryland certainly was not.

19 posted on 06/02/2009 5:46:52 AM PDT by Claud
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To: John Leland 1789
An unbridled thirst for wealth expansion

That's the American Way.

21 posted on 06/02/2009 6:04:04 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: John Leland 1789
capitalist economics and free enterprise will fail

Down with The Man! Power to The People! Socialism Forever!

22 posted on 06/02/2009 6:06:11 AM PDT by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: John Leland 1789
Protestant Christianity produced the faith system and the standard of integrity in the English colonies that became our integrity in business, commerce and contract law.

Because many of the British colonists, such as the Puritans and Congregationalists, were fleeing religious persecution by the Church of England, much of early American religious culture exhibited the more extreme anti-Catholic bias of these Protestant denominations. Monsignor John Tracy Ellis wrote that a "universal anti-Catholic bias was brought to Jamestown in 1607 and vigorously cultivated in all the thirteen colonies from Massachusetts to Georgia."[5] Colonial charters and laws contained specific proscriptions against Roman Catholics...

In 1642, the Colony of Virginia enacted a law prohibiting Catholic settlers. Five years later, a similar law was enacted by the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

In 1649 the Act of Toleration was passed, where "blasphemy and the calling of opprobrious religious names" became punishable offenses, but it was repealed in 1654 and thus outlawing Catholics once again. Puritans condemned ten Catholics to death and plundered the property of the Jesuits. By 1692, Maryland had become a royal colony, the Church of England was established by law, and Catholics were compelled to pay taxes for its support. They were cut off from all participation in public life and additional laws were introduced that forbid religious services and Catholic schools.


27 posted on 06/02/2009 7:27:24 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: John Leland 1789

Excellent points.

Thx.


29 posted on 06/02/2009 7:46:09 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: John Leland 1789
I think there are some good points in your vanity:

Now as to the system upon which the country was built, I would, to a degree, agree with you that it had its roots in the "reformation." But I think, more directly, that it had its roots in the enlightenment that began in the 18th Century. I think that the legal and political structures that were built were built upon an outgrowth of a Utopian interpretation of Reformation Protestantism. (We have been bestowed graces by God, and now it is up to us to create the eternal city using those graces)(Please recall that I am a Catholic, so the comment should be read in that light)

And I see that what has developed from that time is a natural evolution of this into liberal progressive thought (as epitomized by T. Roosevelt and Wilson) that came into vogue during the last quarter of the 19th century and throughout the 20th century.

You don't have to agree with the above, but it's my opinion: take it or leave it.

The essential hypothesis that you advocate, though, is essentially very, very valid. As we, as a society, abandon God in our business dealings, social constructs, and foreign policy, we are becoming progressively weaker and will eventually fall.

But the course of action you appear to advocate will ultimately fail. Prohibition did not work, not because it made spirits illegal, but rather because it imposed a progressive idea on a populace when the populace's hearts and minds were unwilling to accept it. Sodomites will continue to operate with boldness until the culture is changed to show it as it is: a spiritual oppression that will likely result in the commission of mortal sin (sodomy, adultery, fornication). Pornography will continue to flourish until we, as a people at large, stop indulging. Make it illegal and people will just find a way around it. The tragedy is that with the Internet, they can do so from the privacy of their own computers. Disgusting television programs will go off the air when the majority of the people simply stop watching them and start watching edifying programming.

As St. Paul said, "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

And we will begin the conversion of Muslims, the majority of whom honestly are seeking after God, when we, as a people, show them goodness (that is presupposed on our culture turning the corner and becoming authentically good) and showing them, through our lives, the grace of Jesus Christ. When that happens, no amount of religious repression, either from the Muslim country or from our own, will be able to stop it.

I have no illusions about us, with our own power, being able to turn the corner and change the culture. We won't. But if we become personally humble to God and allow Him to work within us, then He can do great things through our weakness. Unfortunately, I see far too few Christians willing to truly humble themselves before God, pull the plank from their eye, and prayerfully wait on God.

Just something to consider. FWIW. YMMV.

30 posted on 06/02/2009 8:29:37 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: John Leland 1789
Capitalism (e.g. honest hard work and fair dealing with others while making money) seems to be supported in the scriptures. However, God's word also shows that a nation running after sin will not be protected by Him. Israel is the perfect example of that.

By the way, the government taking money by force from those who work hard and giving it to those who won't work is a direct violation of scripture.

32 posted on 06/02/2009 2:24:54 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: John Leland 1789
We as Christians MUST NOT equate Christianity with “conservative” politics.

We are aligned on many issues, but must be honest that we are not on others.

37 posted on 06/02/2009 7:43:11 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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