You are interested in bashing Protestantism, rather than dealing with the issues of the Gospel. That is a shame. You have turned so many Scriptures on end that you are in danger of doing what is warned about when Scriptures speak of those who “twist the Scriptures to their own destruction.”
NO CHURCH has the sole authority to interpret Scripture - nor do the Scriptures support this in any way. It is, and always has been, a power play by those who claim it.
You claim you base your salvation on Christ - but if You do not even know what He has said (and hasn’t said!), that is problematic in itself. That is the danger of relying on a particular interpretation which departs from Scripture on so many important points.
We clearly are arguing to no end here since you claim a particular Church’s teaching as co-equal to Scripture: a second “Truth”, if you will. I claim Scripture as the only authoritative source of Truth. PERIOD. As indeed it is, God be praised. We simply have two different points of reference. I will stick with Scripture here rather than man-made dogma.
No Church’s claim (regardless of what it chooses to say about itself) can equal Scripture. This is against Scriptures and not what they teach.
By the way, I do not fear to quote any Scripture - and have made references to Scripture far more than you (who have relied heavily on Catholic interpretation and commentaries, which have no Truth-value whatsoever as they were written by men and not inspired of God - which is clear since so much of what they teach is erroneous and not in line with Scripture.) The fact that I have not chosen to write out the entire quote was to save space, since I assume you have a Bible (but perhaps I should not have assumed that.) My apologies if you were unable to look up the verses for yourself.
You have indeed conflated the Catholic Church with a universal one. You claim they are the same and that Christ has established the Catholic Church (no where can that be found in Scripture, by the way). There is one body of Christ - but it is and never was the Catholic Church. Christ is the Head of His church - His body. There is no other: no infallible Pope, no Apostle, none - who has the right to claim this.
You state: “Again, I am not discussing “Roman Catholicism”. I would be more than happy to discuss Catholicism, however. You could at the very least muster up enough decency to call me by the proper appellation: Catholic.” Here we are arguing semantics, I think. The Catholic Church IS the Roman Catholic Church. You may call yourself anything you like, but they are one and the same. Decency does not dictate that I lie about such things - nor that you continue to deny them.
As for my wishing you well, why would I not? You are obviously confused about the role of Scripture for a believer and I will continue to pray for you - as I would anyone who trusts a particular Church’s teaching above clear Scriptural truth. (You have, again, shown a confusion in your understanding of the role of baptism as a purely symbolic act of obedience. And the idea that you claim that Christ is symbolic is purely frightening for one who claims to be a believer.)
The Catholic Church (call it whatever you wish) confuses sanctification with justification - as you did with the passage in James. We are justified by Christ before God, but IF we are justified, we will continually show, by our fruits of the spirit - sanctification. They are NOT one and the same. To claim salvation by works, as the CC does (and please, no cracks about Credit Cards here - you know exactly to what I am referring - as you did with “RC” - and it is an abbreviation), one must completely deny John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, and the others I cited in my reply to you several posts ago.
Your repeated assumptions that I am a man are off-base as well, by the way. Yet you have assumed so much I should not be surprised (and I am not).
I am not interested in continuing any conversation with so many “sidelines” rather than dealing with the Gospel. If you wish to continue to trumpet Catholicism over Protestantism, be my guest - but remember that your Church (regardless of the name by which you wish to call it!) cannot save you. Christ has not ordained any specific Church or denomination as His arbiter of Truth. He has given us the Scriptures. Inasmuch as ANY Church has departed or does depart from these, it is in danger of heresy. PERIOD. The Scriptures ALONE are infallible. No man-made commentary, creed, canon, opinion, etc... can compare - regardless of the claims of legitimacy by the Church putting it out. Putting one’s faith in the hands of what a particular Church says about the Bible is dangerous ground indeed.
We are obviously at an impasse here. I had hoped to discuss the Gospel with you but see that you are not genuinely interested in doing anything but trumpeting the Catholic Church. Since one cannot conflate Scriptural Truth and Catholicism, here we remain on opposite sides.
You wrote:
“You are interested in bashing Protestantism, rather than dealing with the issues of the Gospel.”
I am not interested in bashing Protestantism. I, instead, deride Protestantism as a matter of course. Since Protestantism is a product of heresy and schism, I have no logical recourse but to deal with it as such. Also, you’re not dealing with issues of the gospel. All you’re doing is putting forward another gospel and claiming it is the gospel.
“That is a shame. You have turned so many Scriptures on end that you are in danger of doing what is warned about when Scriptures speak of those who “twist the Scriptures to their own destruction.””
No. I am not the one twisting scripture here. You are. There is no sola fide preached in scripture.
“NO CHURCH has the sole authority to interpret Scripture -”
Of course it does. The Church Christ founded must logically be the only one with authority. A sect founded by men - like yours - can only be a sect and never will have authority.
“...nor do the Scriptures support this in any way.”
Of course they do. Again, Jesus gave the Apostles authority. He did not give it to all men.
“It is, and always has been, a power play by those who claim it.”
No. It is common sense. WHat you are doing is a power grab. You are grasping at the Church’s legitimate power and trying to make it your own. The Church didn’t grab authority - it always had it and it came from Christ.
“You claim you base your salvation on Christ - but if You do not even know what He has said (and hasn’t said!), that is problematic in itself.”
I know what He said and hasn’t said far better than you and have already proved it.
“That is the danger of relying on a particular interpretation which departs from Scripture on so many important points.”
I never in my life have relied on an interpretation that departs from scripture. I’m not a Protestant.
“We clearly are arguing to no end here since you claim a particular Church’s teaching as co-equal to Scripture: a second “Truth”, if you will.”
Wrong. Truth is simply truth. Both sacred scripture and sacred tradition are from the same source. It is not a second truth. It is just truth. Period.
“I claim Scripture as the only authoritative source of Truth. PERIOD. As indeed it is, God be praised.”
It isn’t, nor does it claim to be. No where in scripture is it claimed that only scripture is the “authoritative source of truth”.
“We simply have two different points of reference. I will stick with Scripture here rather than man-made dogma.”
No you won’t. Your sola scriptura IS A MAN-MADE DOGMA. It exists NOWHERE in scripture. NOWHERE.
“By the way, I do not fear to quote any Scripture - and have made references to Scripture far more than you (who have relied heavily on Catholic interpretation and commentaries, which have no Truth-value whatsoever as they were written by men and not inspired of God - which is clear since so much of what they teach is erroneous and not in line with Scripture.)”
I’m sorry, but your whole approach here is not grounded in scripture but ignorance. I have posted numerous links to articles that discuss scripture in more detail than you have remotely attempted. Unlike you I have not merely made false claims and then posted verse references as if that proved the false claims true. I posted links to substantial articles that discusses issues - often which you were in serious error about - and you ignored all of them. Now what do you do? You make the ridiculous claim that uou have posted more scripture than I have. Clearly you never looked at a single thing I linked to.
“The fact that I have not chosen to write out the entire quote was to save space, since I assume you have a Bible (but perhaps I should not have assumed that.) My apologies if you were unable to look up the verses for yourself.”
Are you really that ignorant? I’m on vacation at the moment. I still have a wonderful vintage New Testament with me. I also have access to the internet (I assume you noticed that, “but perhaps I should not have assumed that”) and therefore have access to online Bibles and Bible tools. What you do not apparently have access to is common sense or an understanding of scripture that makes sense...or at least that’s what your posts betray so far. I’m hoping you’ll smarten up soon, but perhaps your smugness is arresting your God given abilities?
“You have indeed conflated the Catholic Church with a universal one.”
No. First of all, last time you posted about this it was “universalism”. Now youre claiming something else. You need to make up your mind and choose the appropriate wrd. I conflated nothing. I noted the simple fact that the Catholic Church is the Church. That is not conflation, but recognition of reality.
“You claim they are the same and that Christ has established the Catholic Church (no where can that be found in Scripture, by the way).”
Yes, it can. Did Jesus establish a Church? He dicussed the Church Himself so cearly He did. No Protestant sect qualifies bcause they’re all less than 500 years old. This is universally known. Thus, what is left?
“There is one body of Christ - but it is and never was the Catholic Church. Christ is the Head of His church - His body. There is no other: no infallible Pope, no Apostle, none - who has the right to claim this.”
Christ founded the Catholic Church. She is the ONLY Church founded by Christ.
“As for my wishing you well, why would I not? You are obviously confused about the role of Scripture for a believer and I will continue to pray for you - as I would anyone who trusts a particular Church’s teaching above clear Scriptural truth. (You have, again, shown a confusion in your understanding of the role of baptism as a purely symbolic act of obedience. And the idea that you claim that Christ is symbolic is purely frightening for one who claims to be a believer.)”
You’re the one confused. I used an analogy. I never claimed Christ was ONLY symbolic. If you deny Christ is symbolic then you deny the truth. He is symbolic. He is symboic of God’s love of man. He also is perfectly real. So is baptism. Remember, the Bible says baptism saves. You deny it, but it says it. You deny scripture. And then you twist my words. How pathetic on your part.
“The Catholic Church (call it whatever you wish) confuses sanctification with justification - as you did with the passage in James.”
No. The Catholic Church confuses nothing. You are the one confused. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm
“They are NOT one and the same. To claim salvation by works, as the CC does (and please, no cracks about Credit Cards here - you know exactly to what I am referring - as you did with “RC” - and it is an abbreviation),...”
I actually have no idea of what you’re talking about because we don’t believe in salvation by works. We believe in salvation by grace. We just believe that God gives us grace through the sacraments which are the works of God for us to particpate in. Here’s another article that destroys your false points (and of course you won’t read it): http://www.therealpresence.org/essentials/sacraments/acc33.htm
“...one must completely deny John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, and the others I cited in my reply to you several posts ago.”
No. One must simply understand it properly - which you don’t.
“Your repeated assumptions that I am a man are off-base as well, by the way. Yet you have assumed so much I should not be surprised (and I am not).”
In English, the standard rule is to assume a writer is a man unless otherwise told. Since you are only saying I assume you are a man and not actually correctly me on tha point, I will continue to assume you are a man. At least if I am making a mistake I am doing so out of a simple lack of knowledge about something you never discussed and no one online would know. Your mistakes are not so easily explained away. You should know better...much better.
“I am not interested in continuing any conversation with so many “sidelines” rather than dealing with the Gospel. If you wish to continue to trumpet Catholicism over Protestantism, be my guest - but remember that your Church (regardless of the name by which you wish to call it!) cannot save you. Christ has not ordained any specific Church or denomination as His arbiter of Truth.”
Actually He did. He founded ONE Church. The Catholic Church. He never established a Protestant sect like yours nor did He give it any authority.
“He has given us the Scriptures. Inasmuch as ANY Church has departed or does depart from these, it is in danger of heresy. PERIOD. The Scriptures ALONE are infallible. No man-made commentary, creed, canon, opinion, etc... can compare - regardless of the claims of legitimacy by the Church putting it out. Putting one’s faith in the hands of what a particular Church says about the Bible is dangerous ground indeed.”
Christ founded the Church before He sent the scriptures. He, through the Holy Spirit, gave us the scripturs through the work of the Church. The Church was given authority. You were not. He gave the Church knowledge. You were not.
“We are obviously at an impasse here. I had hoped to discuss the Gospel with you but see that you are not genuinely interested in doing anything but trumpeting the Catholic Church.”
No. I see no evidence you are interested at all in discussing the gospel. If you were then you would have just done that and not repeatedly - and falsely - attacked the Catholic Church which you clearly know little or nothing about. What you discuss ad call the gospel, and not even that very well, is the Protestant version of it and that is a false gospel made up by men in the 16th century. It is false.
” Since one cannot conflate Scriptural Truth and Catholicism, here we remain on opposite sides.”
Since one cannot conflate scriptural truth and Protestanism, I remain in truth as a Catholic and you remain outside of it.