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To: MarkBsnr; Zionist Conspirator
Hmm. I knew this, but have never really thought about it in depth... (#18)

Would you say that sin is active or passive disobedience to God, then?...(#17)

That is precisely how Judaism sees sin. Not absence or separation from God, but disobedience of the Law of God. The Christians talk about Ten Commandments as part of the "Judeo-Christian" culture, but fail to mention that the Jews have no less than 613 God's commandments, the mitzvot, and another dozen or so rabbinical ones.

The Jews don't practice their religion; they observe (obey) it (the Law).  A religious Jew is an observant Jew, not a "practicing" Jew. What does that mean? That means, they either do (commit) some things pleasing to God, or refrain from doing (omit) some things displeasing to God. The mitzvot of commission (I believe) slightly outnumber the mitzvot of omission. As CZ wrote recently, to believe in God is a mitzvah (singular of mitzvot); to be compassionate is a mitzvah, an eye for an eye is a mitzvah, "righteous anger" (something so alien to Catholics and Orthodox) is a mitzvah, to not covet one's wife to observe the Sabbath, to not steal, to not worship idols, etc., etc. are all mitzvot.

The Ten Commandments are yet another excellent example of the unbridgeable is the chasm that exists between Christian and Jewish concepts, in this case sin. Christians cherry-picked ten out of 613!

Jewish approach to sin is also viewed from a different angle. Adam and Eve were disobedient and they received rightful punishment. They didn't need to be saved. By sparing their lives, God saved them. He just didn't reward them as he did before, because they were disobedient. (But, according tot he Bible, the debt of disobedience would have been paid back by the fourth generation, so I am not sure how why they were not restored to their previous state. Maybe CZ can helps us here with the Jewish perspective).  

There is a whole slew of theological concepts the Christians borrowed from Judaism and then changed their meaning. Some that come to mind

So, now you can understand that the when John the Forerunner (Baptist) kept saying "repent, the Kingdom of God is near" he and his followers had something else in mind than what the Christians hear.

In Acts 1:4 Jesus tells the disciples to go to Jerusalem and stay there and wait "things concerning the Kingdom of God." In response (verse 6) the disciples ask "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel ?"

23 posted on 07/31/2009 6:29:36 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr
Again, all excellent observations, kosta, with the exception that Adam and Eve may have been created immortal and then lost that immortality after the sin. However, if this is so, it appears to be an esoteric doctrine, as the simple sense of the text seems to be that G-d threatened them with death but relented and expelled them from the Garden instead.

The World to Come isn't the Messianic Era, but the eternal world that succeeds it. Again, this is esoteric, as the Prophets prophesied only of the Messianic Era.

One important difference between Judaism and chr*stianity (and between Judaism and ancient pagan religions like that of Egypt) is that it isn't fixated on the afterlife. There is an afterlife (indeed, it has been cited as a reason for the prohibition of excessive mourning by cutting oneself), but Judaism doesn't concentrate on it. My own poor understanding is that this is because the soul descends from Heaven to enter the body, meaning that our assignment is down here. If it weren't, our souls could have remained in Heaven to begin with! Again, though, our job down here is rectifying the material world--the lowest world--via obedience to G-d, not by liberal utopianism or "social justice."

And kosta, there are 248 positive commandments and 365 negative ones (these are the 613 commandments given to Jews, not to non-Jews).

Again, thank you for your insights and observations.

24 posted on 07/31/2009 6:46:52 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Shema` Yisra'el, HaShem 'Eloqeynu, HaShem 'Echad!)
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