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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr
Again, all excellent observations, kosta, with the exception that Adam and Eve may have been created immortal and then lost that immortality after the sin. However, if this is so, it appears to be an esoteric doctrine, as the simple sense of the text seems to be that G-d threatened them with death but relented and expelled them from the Garden instead.

The World to Come isn't the Messianic Era, but the eternal world that succeeds it. Again, this is esoteric, as the Prophets prophesied only of the Messianic Era.

One important difference between Judaism and chr*stianity (and between Judaism and ancient pagan religions like that of Egypt) is that it isn't fixated on the afterlife. There is an afterlife (indeed, it has been cited as a reason for the prohibition of excessive mourning by cutting oneself), but Judaism doesn't concentrate on it. My own poor understanding is that this is because the soul descends from Heaven to enter the body, meaning that our assignment is down here. If it weren't, our souls could have remained in Heaven to begin with! Again, though, our job down here is rectifying the material world--the lowest world--via obedience to G-d, not by liberal utopianism or "social justice."

And kosta, there are 248 positive commandments and 365 negative ones (these are the 613 commandments given to Jews, not to non-Jews).

Again, thank you for your insights and observations.

24 posted on 07/31/2009 6:46:52 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Shema` Yisra'el, HaShem 'Eloqeynu, HaShem 'Echad!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; MarkBsnr
Thank you, CZ, very much for your clarifying comments. Just for your own conceptual benefit, the Church teaches Adam and Eve were created neither mortal nor immortal, but insists that had they not sinned they would not have died. They chose sin (rejected God, who is life) and became mortal. Thus, mortality became human nature. Whether our mortality is a "sin" (the so-called ancestral or original sin) or a consequence (damage) from sin we all inherit is where the East and West Christianity disagree; the East doesn't treat it as sin but as a fallen, defective product, and the east treats it as a personal sin.

Christian soterology, and what Christ's sacrifice means for our salvation in large part stems form these differing views, which in the case of Catholics is not too far form the Orthodox but in the case of Protestants it becomes another unbridgeable chasm.

One important difference between Judaism and chr*stianity (and between Judaism and ancient pagan religions like that of Egypt) is that it isn't fixated on the afterlife

Yes, thank you for bringing that up. That is a very, very crucial difference indeed. There is no specific teaching or "dogma" in Judaism about afterlife, nor is there excessive preoccupation with it. As you said, Judaism is concerned with mostly this life, here and now, although it believes in afterlife.

My own poor understanding is that this is because the soul descends from Heaven to enter the body, meaning that our assignment is down here. If it weren't, our souls could have remained in Heaven to begin with!

Here is where Judaism and Christianity (and even some who call themselves Christians) stand at extreme odds: the pre-existence of the souls. Gnostics believed it and were condemned for it since they claimed to be "Christian" as well.

Most Christians are not even remotely aware of this theological divide. In Christianity, any mention of such pre-existence is an automatic excommunication, so it is no wonder that such beliefs will be found among various Protestant sects.

However, even within the Church, there are doctrinal but not dogmatic departures on this subject: the West believes predominantly that God "creates" a new soul (that is gives his breath or life) at the moment of conception. (to me this makes no sese, biblically speaking, since God gave life to Adam by blowing life through his nostrills; and nothing similar takes pace at the conception for anatomical reasons)

The East predominantly believes elieves the life (originating from Adam) is passed on like the flame of a candle to a new candle, from generation to generation, and is the same life God gave to our ancestral father, Adam. In that, we are all connected.

And kosta, there are 248 positive commandments and 365 negative ones (these are the 613 commandments given to Jews, not to non-Jews).

I stand corrected. Much obliged. I had it the other way around (writing from memory which is never reliable!). Okay, mental note: there are more do not's then do's. :)

25 posted on 07/31/2009 8:55:47 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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