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To: Zionist Conspirator; MarkBsnr
Thank you, CZ, very much for your clarifying comments. Just for your own conceptual benefit, the Church teaches Adam and Eve were created neither mortal nor immortal, but insists that had they not sinned they would not have died. They chose sin (rejected God, who is life) and became mortal. Thus, mortality became human nature. Whether our mortality is a "sin" (the so-called ancestral or original sin) or a consequence (damage) from sin we all inherit is where the East and West Christianity disagree; the East doesn't treat it as sin but as a fallen, defective product, and the east treats it as a personal sin.

Christian soterology, and what Christ's sacrifice means for our salvation in large part stems form these differing views, which in the case of Catholics is not too far form the Orthodox but in the case of Protestants it becomes another unbridgeable chasm.

One important difference between Judaism and chr*stianity (and between Judaism and ancient pagan religions like that of Egypt) is that it isn't fixated on the afterlife

Yes, thank you for bringing that up. That is a very, very crucial difference indeed. There is no specific teaching or "dogma" in Judaism about afterlife, nor is there excessive preoccupation with it. As you said, Judaism is concerned with mostly this life, here and now, although it believes in afterlife.

My own poor understanding is that this is because the soul descends from Heaven to enter the body, meaning that our assignment is down here. If it weren't, our souls could have remained in Heaven to begin with!

Here is where Judaism and Christianity (and even some who call themselves Christians) stand at extreme odds: the pre-existence of the souls. Gnostics believed it and were condemned for it since they claimed to be "Christian" as well.

Most Christians are not even remotely aware of this theological divide. In Christianity, any mention of such pre-existence is an automatic excommunication, so it is no wonder that such beliefs will be found among various Protestant sects.

However, even within the Church, there are doctrinal but not dogmatic departures on this subject: the West believes predominantly that God "creates" a new soul (that is gives his breath or life) at the moment of conception. (to me this makes no sese, biblically speaking, since God gave life to Adam by blowing life through his nostrills; and nothing similar takes pace at the conception for anatomical reasons)

The East predominantly believes elieves the life (originating from Adam) is passed on like the flame of a candle to a new candle, from generation to generation, and is the same life God gave to our ancestral father, Adam. In that, we are all connected.

And kosta, there are 248 positive commandments and 365 negative ones (these are the 613 commandments given to Jews, not to non-Jews).

I stand corrected. Much obliged. I had it the other way around (writing from memory which is never reliable!). Okay, mental note: there are more do not's then do's. :)

25 posted on 07/31/2009 8:55:47 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
errata: and the east treats it as a personal sin=and the West treats it as a personal sin

elieves = elieves

26 posted on 07/31/2009 9:00:44 AM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
Yes, thank you for bringing that up. That is a very, very crucial difference indeed. There is no specific teaching or "dogma" in Judaism about afterlife, nor is there excessive preoccupation with it. As you said, Judaism is concerned with mostly this life, here and now, although it believes in afterlife.

Do not misunderstand--Judaism is a highly mystical and spiritual religion (though it has its rationalists). However, these doctrines are very esoteric. I am currently studying a book (two pages a day) on the Noachide Laws endorsed by authentic Orthodox rabbis. It begins by noting that "the righteous of the nations [which means pious observants of the Noachide Laws, not "all nice people"] have a portion in the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come," but after this focuses entirely on law, statute, and regulation. That is Judaism's exoteric systematic thrust.

Most Christians are not even remotely aware of this theological divide.

How many very sweet and sincere Judaeophilic "Bible chr*stians" know the important role of gilgul neshamot (ie, "reincarnation") in Orthodox Judaism? Of course, not all Orthodox Jews believe in it (it is rejected by the highly rationalistic).

I'm afraid I'll never understand classical chr*stianity. From my perspective as a Fundamentalist Protestant it simply makes no sense. Either we're messed up and and can only be passive recipients of salvation, or else the Law of G-d stands forever. But that we're "messed up" only enough to replace the Torah with something else? Um . . . illogical. As for the Catholic/classical Protestant argument over whether the "graces of the redemption" are "intrinsic or extrinsic," all I knew was that J*sus was vicariously damned in the place of each human individual, providing a loophole (you can't go to hell if you're already there!). This worldview makes Torah observance unnecessary, but it doesn't replace it with anything else and certainly isn't threatened if Jewish People continue to follow the commandments G-d gave them.

This view of chr*stianity which I held is, I believe, that of the vast majority in the American Heartland. Nothing is more confusing or makes less sense to one who holds such a view than authentic chr*stianity with its selective antinomianism.

All of this is not said as an insult to you or to anyone else but as a sincere attempt to explain how things look from my side.

27 posted on 07/31/2009 12:21:49 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Shema` Yisra'el, HaShem 'Eloqeynu, HaShem 'Echad!)
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