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In The Beginning God, Not Darwin, Created
Post Scripts ^ | 10/11/09 | One Vike

Posted on 10/11/2009 6:56:59 AM PDT by OneVike

special thanks to hanna548 for the artwork

There is a disturbing trend that has taken hold of the modern day Christian community, and it is my opinion that this trend is causing a schism as big as the one that was addressed at the Council of Nicea over the Trinity. Now this is not a debate for those who have no faith in Christ, for what accord has Christ with Belial? No, this is strictly a debate for those who profess Christ as their Lord and Savior. Unfortunately, those who attempt to address the problem are usually labeled as rabble-rousers who only wish to spread discontent within the ranks of Christendom. This trend I speak of, is the compromising of the Word with the idea of evolution known as theistic evolution or Old Earth Creationism. I say “compromise”, because in the 150 years since Darwin offered his theory of evolution, the only side in the argument that has offered to compromise its position has been the Christian side. I have yet to see the evolutionary camp temper it's teachings to include God anywhere in the equation of creation.

If I am wrong, then I challenge someone to prove to me that the godless Darwinists have ever compromised their position on evolution. If anything they have stiffened their resolve to convert all mankind to their atheistic system that excludes a Creator other than random chance. The evolutionary thinkers are not struggling to find a way to harmonize the events of Genesis 1-11 with the words of Darwin or Stephen J. Gould. They are beating the drum of "science" versus "religion" so loud that they cannot hear the evidence that some Christian apologists would try to get them to consider. Too often, those who present any evidence that makes a case for the Biblical account of creation are even ridiculed by Christians who believe in theistic evolution. In many cases they are ridiculed in the same way the ungodly Darwinists ridicule them. Well allow me to present a few reasons why I do not have enough faith to believe in the OEC's theistic evolutionary theory.

As I said, my article is not directed at anyone who does not claim to be a Christian, so I will not be addressing the scientific or geological particulars of evolution or of space and time. This is strictly a debate between Christians who claim to be Biblical “Young Earth Creationists”, and Christians who hold to the views of “Old Earth Creationism”, “Theistic evolutionism”, or the “Gap Theory”. However, before I present my reasons why I believe these beliefs are all wrong, I must distinguish the difference between "Macro-Evolution", and "Micro- Evolution".

Micro-evolution is not really evolution at all, it is just the simple variation within a species. What scientists describe as the prominence of genes being displayed within that species. This is what allows a family to have one child with blond hair and blue eyes, while the other has brown hair and brown eyes. The children have not evolved (they are still human), they simply differ in their dominant genes. In like manner, Christian micro-evolutionists believe that all dogs in the world today have evolved within the species from two dogs Noah brought onto the Ark, and all canines would be similar to every other animal of that species existing on the planet today.

Macro-evolution on the other hand refers to major evolutionary changes over time, the origin of new types of organisms from previously existing, but different, ancestral types. Examples of this would be fish descending from an invertebrate animal, or whales descending from a land mammal. The evolutionary concept demands these bizarre changes, and this is the bases for which Darwin's theory has been propagated.

Now back to my reasons for disagreeing with theistic evolutionists. I find it sad that any Christian who would claim to hold to the truths of the Scriptures, could then turn around and say that they question the most basic and foundational truths revealed in the Scriptures such as: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Genesis 1:1. In doing so, they are not merely questioning the curious mechanics and unique events of the creation week, but they are debating the very words and message of that week. Furthermore, to deny God created everything through Christ in a normal 6-day period is to question the very character and nature of God. It attributes to Him the evil, wasteful, chaotic, random, purposeless, death-filled processes of evolutionary "creation", that would make Him (God) the very Author and Sustainer of all that the theory of evolution demands. In my opinion those who attribute to the power of Satan any miracles which Christ performed, or generally those works which are the result of the Holy Spirit, are in danger of committing Blasphemy. Matthew 12:31-32; Mark 3:28-29; Luke 12:10

Another disturbing fact about having a belief in theistic evolution, would be the denial of the doctrine of Original Sin. Think about it, if suffering, death, and extinction are inevitable components of the evolutionary process, then it only follows that the doctrine of Original Sin makes no sense. Humans would had to have evolved into a world that was already filled with suffering and other forms of imperfection, such as hurricanes, floods, pain, and suffering. Ultimately, death would not be a punishment for sin because death would had to have always been a part of the cycle of life wich would have been needed for evolution to exist on earth. Taken to its inevitable conclusion, if humans are not responsible for suffering and evil, but instead death is simply a natural process rather than a punishment, what need is there for atonement and redemption? After all if man is not responsible for sin as the Bible says, then the Bible is wrong, and if the Bible is wrong why live by it's precepts?

Now I need to address the debate over the Hebrew word “Yom” or יום. Those who disagree with the literal translation of the Bible that claims God created everything in six literal earth days, use the argument that “yom” is sometimes used to describe an age or an era. I offer six reasons theistic evolutionists and OEC's are wrong in their interpretation of the record of Genesis.

1.) Moses repeats, “And there was evening and there was morning, one dayGenesis 1:5, Genesis 1:8, Genesis 1:13, Genesis 1:19, Genesis 1:23, Genesis 1:31.

2.) In the context of a 24 hour day, Moses again defines what he means by ”yom”, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holyExodus 20:11; Exodus 31:17.

3.) The Hebrew word for day, or “yom”, is used 1480 times in the Old Testament, and it is translated by some different 50 words. It can mean an indefinite time, but it is not used as an age of millions or billions of years. When "yom" is used with a numerical adjective, it always refers to a literal 24 hour day.

4.) The Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, the “Septuagint”, uses "hemera" or ἡμέρα, which normally means a 24 hour day such as, “And He was in the wilderness forty days”, not forty ages or eras. Mark 1:13.

5.) Furthermore, if Moses meant a period of long eons or ages, then the translators should have used the Greek word, "aion" or αἰών. which is the word Christ used when he gave His followers their marching orders for the great commission in Matthew12:20

“teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen
6.) The creation of Genesis involves Jesus Himself, because He was there when it happened. Jesus even stated that Moses interpretation of the record of Genesis was correct, and who are we to claim Jesus is a liar? Consider what happened the day the Pharisees confronted Him regarding marriage and asked Him about the legality of divorce in Mark 10:4-9;
"Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her." And Jesus answered and said to them, "Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH SO THEN THEY ARE NO LONGER TWO, BUT ONE FLESH. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

So, from this exchange you can see that Jesus obviously agreed with Moses in his interpretation of the creation story, thus rejecting macro evolution and the Old Earth theory. Jesus specifically said, from the beginning He made them. He did not say, In the beginning he started the process. Jesus believed there was a definite beginning and that Moses did not write an allegorical story because the Israelites were to primitive to understand the truth. So if Jesus said so, why would anyone want to disagree with Him?

Also, those of you who are proponents of theistic evolution are walking a very thin line, because you also must deny the very existence of the Trinity.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.John 5:7
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.Genesis 1:1
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him1 Corinthians 8:6
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.Colossians 1:15-17
You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the earth.Psalm 104:30
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.Genesis 1:2.

The Scriptures, and an understanding of the texts, should be enough to prove to Christians that the Bible is right. When it comes to the debate with the godless Darwinists, we Christians are living in great times. Every day we find more evidence that proves the Scriptures are historically, archeologically, and scientifically correct. Now is not the time for us Christians to compromise our faith in God, for ultimately that is how we will be judged. Do you have enough faith in God to believe He is who He says He is, and that he can do what He said He would do? The faith of a mustard seed is all you need to throw a mountain into the sea, could you imagine the trembling of the Godless if we Christians had such faith?

I pray that those who have ears to hear will hear His voice and call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen


TOPICS: Apologetics; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: amerscientifaffil; asalist; creation; gagdad; gagdadbob; gaptheory; onecosmos; scientism; theisticevolution; yec
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To: dmz

What’s next...Do all apes go to heaven? :)


201 posted on 10/14/2009 5:09:56 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther

What’s next...Do all apes go to heaven? :)

<><><><><

You wouldn’t want only the dogs there, to the exclusion of the rest of the animal kingdom, would you?. I have it on good authority that all dogs go to heaven.


202 posted on 10/15/2009 1:20:20 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

I don’t know about your dog, but I know my dog’s going to heaven! :)

Seriously, I think even our little hamster is going somewhere pretty cool.


203 posted on 10/15/2009 1:41:16 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther; OneVike
I never said you said He couldn't...I merely pointed out to you the possibility you failed to mention...

No...you used the words "something you don’t understand" and proceeded to describe the possibility of a world that God had made look different from what it was...which is exactly as I described, with God acting like Loki the Trickster and misleading Man.

And you also twisted my words about zygotes into them being gametes.

I fail to see where either you or OneVike have addressed that, and I am more and more curious as to whether you actually believe what you claimed about God not being wasteful, or what explanation you have for all of the evident waste in the world.

204 posted on 10/16/2009 3:06:16 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: dmz

Even that pit bull that terrorized the neighborhood out of pure meanness?


205 posted on 10/16/2009 3:07:45 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: rom

Honest question... The geological evidence points so overwhelmingly to much older age than that, so how do you reconcile it? Do you believe God made earth with a falsely old appearance?


206 posted on 10/16/2009 3:17:46 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

I said I’m an OEC, what’s your beef?

I said man < 100,000 years old.


207 posted on 10/16/2009 6:56:09 PM PDT by rom (Israel got Saul before they got David. Where's our David?)
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To: Gondring

That’s right and clearly you STILL don’t understand with comments like “Loki the Trickster and misleading man”.


208 posted on 10/16/2009 9:05:59 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: rom

Apologies...I didn’t read carefully enough and took that as “the earth,” not “man.”


209 posted on 10/16/2009 10:38:00 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: tpanther

Pretty clumsy evasion of my questions.


210 posted on 10/16/2009 10:39:15 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

clumsy post, clumsy questions...


211 posted on 10/18/2009 8:12:12 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther

So your only reply about zygotes is to misrepresent what I wrote, huh?


212 posted on 10/18/2009 8:17:43 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

If the pit bull repents, then it’s OK.


213 posted on 10/19/2009 8:19:02 AM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz
If the pit bull repents, then it’s OK.

heh!

214 posted on 10/19/2009 3:49:12 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

Didn’t really pay to much attention about your zygotes, as the rest of your post was so weird.


215 posted on 10/19/2009 6:54:34 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther

Sorry it was over your head.

I’m also sorry that my question about zygotes revealed you had no backing for your claim. I was hoping perhaps you knew something of which I was not aware.


216 posted on 10/20/2009 4:18:40 AM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

Didn’t really pay to much attention about your zygotes, as the rest of your post was so weird.


217 posted on 10/20/2009 4:37:36 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther
Hurts to get caught, doesn't it? Now the whole world can go back upthread and read how you tried to pull a fast one.

To make it easier on folks, I'll copy "the rest of [my] post":

You've walked onto thin ice here.

I have pointed out on previous threads that Young Earth Creationism implies that Yahweh acts like Loki the Trickster. That is, the overwhelming evidence of the earth's old age is either real, or God is misleading us.
The only "weird" part of my post was that extraneous last comma.

And then, to remind about the part that mentioned zygotes, which you tried to turn into gametes and evade when caught:

Secondly, if God "doesn't do wasteful," then life can't begin at conception--since many millions of zygotes are created but discarded from the womb before the mother even knows a conception has occurred.
(Hint: Here's the part of the script where you have the epiphany that honesty is the best policy, and, therefore, decide to face reality.)
218 posted on 10/20/2009 9:45:34 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

If anyone’s evading anything, that would be you with your weird “Loki the Trickster” comment.

I could care less about your misunderstandings about wasteful gametes, zygotes or whatever...but you’re welcome to keep hyperventilating about them. Knock yourself out.

Just because you misunderstand God’s creation doesn’t mean everyone else is obligated to. What might be wasteful to you may not be to others.

What’s a Loki anyway?


219 posted on 10/23/2009 1:56:45 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther

ROTFLOL!


220 posted on 10/23/2009 5:16:29 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: OneVike

[Today, my battle is with those who profess a belief in Christianity, but give deference to Darwin’s theory of evolution instead of God through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit for Creation.]

The answer to how a Christian can follow the Bible and the creation account in Genesis and still accept the validity of the theory of evolution is quite simple; the creation account serves its purpose metaphorically, rather than literally. The idea that religious meaning can be gained from a metaphorical story in the Bible is widely held by a great many religious people including some who are accomplished scientists.


221 posted on 10/28/2009 5:51:47 PM PDT by spinestein (The answer is 42.)
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