Posted on 12/08/2009 11:41:52 AM PST by Gamecock
The heap of false, man-made teachings of heretics, including but not limited to sola fide, sola Scriptura, TULIP, and others.
Traditions of men...REPENT!
I’m sorry it bothers you that I don’t want to play your game of denying the historic faith to curry favor with Protestants, or of feigning gross offense at everything Protestants here say about the Church and having to go running to the Religion Moderator crying about it. That is all very childish, and I am sure the Moderator has long since been very exasperated about everyone’s feigned “hurt” feelings on the subject.
But I’m a big boy. Its fine with me if Protestants want to say whatever they want to about our Church, our Faith. The truth on this matter is well known and easily found by anyone who wishes to do so. The witness of Catholics cannot be better than simple straightforward honesty and simplicity.
What is sad is when Catholics adopt a Janus approach of two-face duplicity, where they deny their own faith despite it being well known to all.
Gamecock called you on that #11.
Absolutely not.
How does one borrow Boolean semantics?
Do you believe that the Pope is infallible as defined by Vatican I? Do you believe the current Pope is the rightful pontiff?
The sources you site are not infallible sources and though have much merit do not rise on a teaching that must be held by all the faithful. Salvation outside of the Church is well explained in Dominus Iesus.
You're the expert with the experience, read your own posting history.
Protestants realize that Rome holds a very special place in Catholic ecclesiology. It is the home of the Apostolic See, the seat from which the Bishop of Rome serves your Church. You hold the Pope to be the Bishop of Rome, the Patriarch of the West, and First among equals in the apostolic college. When speaking ex cathedra about matters of faith or moral, you hold him to be infallible. His position is considered with such high honor that no individual Catholic stands within his rights to pass judgment upon him and the papacy itself has played a unique and important role in European History. The pope is the foremost figurehead of the Church as an institution and its main representative here on earth. He holds that honor by virtue of being the bishop of the city of Rome.
Can you honestly take it as a slight when non-Catholics find themselves inclined to identify your Church with Rome by calling it the Roman Catholic Church? Catholics take great pride in the papacy, which is intimately linked to Rome - I am not certain as to why you see this as an opportunity to beat people over their heads for their "ignorance" instead of something to be proud of. Maybe you think that people who use the term are simply limiting the Church's claim to be "Catholic" in nature. I have to disagree. Calling the your Church the "Roman Catholic Church" does not necessarily limit the catholicity of the Church itself - instead, it seems to be a matter of recognition that the Catholic nature of your Church is intimately and inseparably linked to that See based in Rome.
None of this is to bash you or to start an argument with you. I just honestly cannot understand the need to be so insulting and combative about this when people do not necessarily wish you ill.
You are not accurately presenting the teachings of "the historic faith," if by that you mean orthodox Catholicism.
The following are not trick questions.
Who is the Pope of Rome at the present time? What is his regnal name? His baptismal name? How sure are you of your answers to the three foregoing questions?
Why do you suppose Mary would withhold that Grace from so many millions of Protestants??? You nor I can find anything that remotely resembles that statement in the scriptures so one has to rely on the tradition of your religion for that truth...Why hasn't Mary give me that grace???
I’m sorry it bothers you that I don’t want to play your game of denying the historic faith to curry favor with Protestants...
I've done no such thing: I've neither denied the Catholic faith nor attempted to curry favor with anyone concerning any compromise of Catholic faith.
...or of feigning gross offense at everything Protestants here say about the Church and having to go running to the Religion Moderator crying about it.
Feigning? Mindreading is not permitted on the Religion Forum. Neither have I gone running to the RM crying about anything.
But please, continue.
It's very revealing to observe.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
You're really not in any position to blame me for that.
Ask her.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
That's not mind-reading. He asked me repeatedly for definitions. Shall I presume he asked for them though he did not need them?
You know what?
Never mind, you're right. It's quite possible he knows exactly what the terms mean but insisted on asking me anyway.
I don't agree with that statement at all. Of course the explicit words to that effect aren't there, but neither are a lot of other things ... an orthodox, detailed explanation of the Trinity, for example. It had to be deduced. "I don't see it" isn't the same thing as "it isn't in there".
...Why hasn't Mary give me that grace???
God gives us graces through Mary, ultimately because God gave us Christ, the source and font of all grace, through Mary.
The answer to your question is the same for any question of the form "Why doesn't God give grace X to person Y?"
He sovereignly chose not to, for reasons that may not be comprehensible to us, but are certainly both holy and just. Or, he chose to give those graces, but in a manner that person Y could resist them if Y so chose ... and Y did choose to resist that grace.
(That verse in Romans about potter and clay isn't only found in the Calvinist Bible.)
“Its fine with me if Protestants want to say whatever they want to about our Church, our Faith.”
So much for defending the Faith. What if what the Protestants wrongly say about the Church leads folks into error? You know, like this thread?
“The truth on this matter is well known and easily found by anyone who wishes to do so.”
And it will be just a little easier if somebody with questions comes across this thread I reckon.
Freegards
Naw, I don't pray to false gods, to give me gifts that only God can dish out, or for any reason for that matter...
I'd be mighty nervous if I received a supernatural gift from anyone/anything other than God...
God hasn't given you that grace through Mary yet, as far as you know!
We're still prayin' for you. Straight to the Big Man, and through our brothers and sisters in heaven. ;-)
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