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Can a Catholic Christian Pray Like a Jew? – Conclusion
Vivificat! - News, Opinion, Commentary & Reflections from a personal Catholic perspective ^ | 26 December 2009 | TDJ

Posted on 12/26/2009 3:23:12 PM PST by Teófilo

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To: UriĀ’el-2012
One day you will come to reject the myths.

As a non-Christian, do you consider Christianity a myth? Do you expect me to reject that?

The catholic church was started in the fourth century at Nicea run by a Pagan.

I can certainly expect a non-Christian to want to rewrite Christian history like that, but you meet with EPIC FAIL.

Christ walked the earth in the first century. That's why we call it the first century.

41 posted on 12/27/2009 10:04:59 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Petronski
I guess there are those who are vincibly ignorant
and will require Yah'shua to disabuse them of their myths.

42 posted on 12/27/2009 10:13:19 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: onedoug
Hyam Maccoby, Revolution In Judaea: Jesus And The Jewish Resistanc

For all to know who Hyam Maccoby was and what he believed. Is this your hero? He says Judas Iscariot was a Christian invention?

43 posted on 12/27/2009 10:16:11 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Do Messianic Jews believe Jesus is God? Yes or no?


44 posted on 12/27/2009 10:17:20 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Jesus Christ will disabuse me of my Christianity?

LOLROFLMTO!


45 posted on 12/27/2009 10:18:28 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

As a non-Christian, do you consider Christianity a myth? Do you expect me to reject that?


46 posted on 12/27/2009 10:19:06 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: kosta50
Yes

47 posted on 12/27/2009 10:19:15 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: TeĆ³filo

Beautiful and very interesting to me. I was surprised for instance to hear that I believe Catholics (I forget which Christians, I think it’s Catholics) use a version of the Priestly Blessing, which we use to bless our children weekly. I think that MOST of the Jewish prayers would be satisfying to Christians because they are prayers to our same, One and Only, G-d. Since you also have Jesus, you can add your own to it.


48 posted on 12/27/2009 10:24:35 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: kosta50

Interesting conjecture considering the inconsistancy and differences, ommissions, etc. of the Gospels on quite a few counts; and that the cruel and bungling Pilate would have released a prisoner, ie., the “Passover Privalege”, without consultation with Rome is equally intriguing.

Iscariot: dagger man....

Quite fascinating.

As for myself, I think Jesus was an interesting rabbi, that is, a Pharisee, but not divine. I believe in the strict “oneness” of God. Not two, nor three, nor...what you will.


49 posted on 12/27/2009 10:44:21 AM PST by onedoug
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To: TeĆ³filo; kosta50; MarkBsnr
"However, that raises the question if Jews are saved through observance of the Old Covenant, apart from Christ."

Oh, you know, T, I worked long and hard to stop setting the rules for God and at my advanced age I have pretty much succeeded so I have no definite idea about that. My gut says yes, they are saved by observance of the Old Covenant which cannot be "apart from Christ" since "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" but I don't know; way, way above my pay grade, my friend.

"Different perceptions of a phenomenon whose underlying Reality is the same, K."

So the priests and the rabbis around here in my youth always said.

50 posted on 12/27/2009 10:46:16 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: onedoug

So, I take it you are a Christian who believes Chirst is not God? What was he then?


51 posted on 12/27/2009 10:54:20 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
Yes

Jews can't believe in another God.

52 posted on 12/27/2009 10:55:42 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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To: Kolokotronis; TeĆ³filo; MarkBsnr
"T: Different perceptions of a phenomenon whose underlying Reality is the same, K."

K: So the priests and the rabbis around here in my youth always said.

That's really stretching it. I am sure no self-respecting Jew would say Christianity is just a different perception of the same underlying reality.

My gut says yes, they are saved by observance of the Old Covenant which cannot be "apart from Christ" since "In the beginning [sic] was the Word..." but I don't know; way, way above my pay grade, my friend.

Well, they leave out the Christ, Kolo. The NT really doesn't leave that option.

53 posted on 12/27/2009 11:07:27 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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To: kosta50

Perhaps he believes in some kind of ersatz modalism.


54 posted on 12/27/2009 11:09:31 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
Well, they leave out the Christ, Kolo. The NT really doesn't leave that option.

They are God's Chosen People; they were called that long before Christ arrived. I kinda agree with Kolo. I don't believe that God has withdrawn His covenant from the Jewish Nation.

55 posted on 12/27/2009 11:32:18 AM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Petronski

I’ve been to several websites that go into Messianic Jews and it appears as if they become neither Jewish nor Christian, but consist of a few tens of thousands scattered around the world, a group of entities to themselves.


56 posted on 12/27/2009 11:34:26 AM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: kosta50
U-2012>Yes

Jews can't believe in another God.

There is only one YHvH.
NAU Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! YHvH is our God,
YHvH is one!

NAU Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is,
'HEAR, O ISRAEL! YHvH OUR GOD IS ONE YHvH;

NAU John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
57 posted on 12/27/2009 11:34:59 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: kosta50; TeĆ³filo; MarkBsnr

“That’s really stretching it.”

You think so, Kosta mou? The underlying reality of the liturgy and the temple ceremonies was the worship of God. That’s the same and the manner in which it is done, even the way the priests dress to some extent, bear similarities so far as we know.

“I am sure no self-respecting Jew would say Christianity is just a different perception of the same underlying reality.”

I agree. And no Orthodox Christian would say that Judaism is just a different perception of the same underlying reality as Christianity. I did not understand Theo to be saying that.

“Well, they leave out the Christ, Kolo.”

Indeed they do. Maybe Christ doesn’t leave them out.

“The NT really doesn’t leave that option.”

John 3:8. Like I said, above my pay grade.


58 posted on 12/27/2009 11:35:06 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
Thank you once again for your comments in this thread.
Beautiful in their simplicity, yet deep enough that one can glean volumes of understanding. Thank you.

On another note, I've read various opinions of Christianity being the “New Israel” but I am not at all convinced nor comfortable with the idea.
I see some here relate to this...for me it brings confusion and a host of complicated issues, and distracts from the centrality of Christ.

Have their been threads on this topic in the past? and I'd be interested in your opinion at some time convenient for you. Thank you again.

59 posted on 12/27/2009 11:36:12 AM PST by caww
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To: Petronski
Perhaps he believes in some kind of ersatz modalism

Possibly. Messianic Jews are really Protestants dressed up like Jews and their beliefs are equally divergent.

60 posted on 12/27/2009 12:50:06 PM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you.)
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