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So. Baptists Called to Repent, Grip Reality of 'Lostness'
Christian Post ^ | Feb. 23 2010 | Lillian Kwon

Posted on 02/23/2010 12:54:18 PM PST by Between the Lines

Southern Baptists need to repent of their pride, boasting and disunity and return to God and His vision.

That was the sobering call Dr. Ronnie Floyd made Monday as he presented a highly anticipated report charting out a new course for the nation's largest Protestant denomination.

"We (task force) have been gripped by the reality of the lost condition of our world and about our condition as a denomination, but through this journey we have also been set on fire by the call of God to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ," Floyd, chairman of the Great Commission Resurgence Task Force, stated in a progress report. "Surely Southern Baptists can agree that we need a new and compelling vision for the future."

Last summer amid talks of a "Great Commission Resurgence," delegates of the Southern Baptist Convention overwhelmingly approved a motion authorizing the appointment of a task force charged to bring a report and recommendations to the denomination concerning how Southern Baptists can work more faithfully and effectively together in serving Christ through the Great Commission.

Put it simply, the panel was asked to address the question: What needs to be done?

For the past several months, the 22-member panel has been hammering out a vision and outlining steps that would move the denomination past the infighting and toward penetrating the massive "lostness" in the world.

Their first action was to get on their knees and cry out to God, Floyd said. And that's the first action Floyd has called the rest of the 16 million-member convention to take.

"We need a fresh and compelling vision that will only come when we are right with Him," he said in his report, which has been the talk of the Twitter world among Southern Baptists since its release Monday evening.

Membership in the SBC began to dip in recent years and the number of baptisms has continued to fall. The latest report shows a membership decline in 2008 by 0.2 percent. And while the population in the country more than doubled since 1950 and the number of SBC churches grew, the convention still baptized 33,887 less people in 2008 compared to 1950.

"With rhetoric we bemoan our dismal baptism numbers, our declining and plateaued churches, and our economic selfishness. The casting of criticism has resulted in a caustic cynicism that just adds to our rhetoric and writings. We attempt to treat symptoms rather than the root issues of sin and carnality. The rhetoric needs to cease and the repentance personally and corporately must begin," the Arkansas pastor said. "We need to repent of our sins and return to God."

The next critical step for revival to spread in the SBC is getting the 44,000 churches to grasp the reality of lostness in the United States and in the world, Floyd said.

Among the 340 million people living in North America, three in four are estimated to be "lost and perishing," he reported. At the global level, 4 billion of the 6.8 billion people in the world have little to no access to the Gospel and 1.5 billion have never even had the possibility of hearing the name of Jesus.

"Missiologists will tell you that 90 percent of the entire world is lost without Jesus," he highlighted.

"To the degree we grasp lostness will be the degree we are willing to do whatever is necessary to penetrate it. If we do not understand lostness intellectually and theologically, we will not change nor will we do what must be done to penetrate it."

Floyd believes many Southern Baptist churches today have developed "theological amnesia or theological Alzheimer’s disease" when it comes to lostness.

"I am convinced we have not only forgotten what it is like to be lost, but we act as if lostness does not exist, there is really no hell, and many times conduct ourselves as Universalists," he said, as he reaffirmed Christ as the only way to salvation.

The task force report, which was presented to the Executive Committee and leaders of SBC national entities, outlined a vision based on six components and rooted in eight core values.

Among the recommendations is the reinvention of the North American Mission Board – the domestic mission arm of the SBC. The NAMB's priority is to assist SBC churches in planting churches, particularly in metropolitan areas, where the majority of the population lives, and under-served people groups.

The report also recommends entrusting to the International Mission Board – the international missions agency of the SBC – the ministry to reach the unreached people groups in the world and in North America. Many unreached groups that may be difficult to reach overseas are residing in the United States, the report points out.

Southern Baptists will also be asked to raise the International Mission Board allocation for the 2011-2012 budget year to 51 percent. If approved, it would mark the first time in SBC history that more than one-half of all funds that come from local churches through the SBC Cooperative Program will go to the reaching of the nations.

A final report of the GCR Task Force will be released on May 3. It will then be presented and discussed at the SBC's annual meeting in June.

"The 2010 Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Orlando, Florida, can become a watershed moment for the reaching of the nations," said Floyd. "May [the annual meeting] be the moment that will define the future for generations to come and show that Southern Baptists are a unified people, Bible-based, Gospel-centered, and set on fire by the Holy Spirit, believing we must join together like never before in presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ to every person in the world and to make disciples of all the nations."


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian
KEYWORDS: sbc; southernbaptist
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1 posted on 02/23/2010 12:54:19 PM PST by Between the Lines
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To: Between the Lines

Let me say, as a Catholic, that in my estimation this “Repentance” message is very wise and very welcome. I pray for true repentance in my own soul,and for my family and my country. It’s a hard message but it’s “as serious as a heart attack.”


2 posted on 02/23/2010 12:59:33 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Kyrie eleison.)
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To: Between the Lines

http://www.pray4gcr.com/downloads/GCRTF_Progress_Report.pdf


3 posted on 02/23/2010 1:01:05 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Between the Lines

....or a return to the London Baptist Confession of 1644....now THAT would be a sure cure for their “theological amnesia”.....


4 posted on 02/23/2010 1:01:43 PM PST by Hardshell
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To: Between the Lines

Repentance leads to spiritual revival. We could all use that.


5 posted on 02/23/2010 1:02:48 PM PST by Linda Frances
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To: Between the Lines; xzins; P-Marlowe

“pride, boasting and disunity”

Shoot, their taking away all of our distinctives. If we did this we would be like them Methodists or Independants. Next they will be coming after the beer. This sounds a lot like spiritual obamacare for the Baptists.


6 posted on 02/23/2010 1:03:11 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Between the Lines
"We need a fresh and compelling vision that will only come when we are right with Him"

Maybe he should just try the Bible and realize that God has already done everything to make him righteous. I guess I'm just glad that my faith doesn't depend on the number of people in my church. But the Church Groeth movement does seem to be all the rage these days (beware LCMS).

7 posted on 02/23/2010 1:05:02 PM PST by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

From the report:

Let me make something very clear: There is no other way to God than through Jesus Christ. Repentance of sin is necessary to salvation. If one does not know Christ, he or she spends eternity in hell. Based upon our theological understanding of salvation, Jesus is the one and only way to God; therefore, we have no alternative but to do whatever needs to be done to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ into places where the gospel has never been before. The level of our urgency will be determined by our understanding and belief in the lostness of the United States and the entire world.


8 posted on 02/23/2010 1:05:05 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Between the Lines

What’s the difference between Baptists and Methodists?

Methodists acknowledge each other at the liquor store.


9 posted on 02/23/2010 1:06:54 PM PST by nhoward14 (This space for rent.)
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To: In veno, veritas

Why worry about the lost? If God wants the heathen converted, let Him do it!

Maybe the SBC is seeing less passion as it becomes more Calvinist...


10 posted on 02/23/2010 1:08:10 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers

Calvinism does not absolve anyone from the great commission.
Aknowledgement of God’s omniscience reduces one’s own duties to love others in no way.


11 posted on 02/23/2010 1:14:22 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Between the Lines

I pray for revival within the SBC. We need a revival within this nation and the Church is at fault for the spiritual condition we are in as a nation.


12 posted on 02/23/2010 1:16:11 PM PST by truthandlife ("Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God." (Ps 20:7))
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To: Between the Lines
Among the 340 million people living in North America, three in four are estimated to be "lost and perishing," he reported.

How does one arrive at such an "estimate"?

"OK, there's 70 million Catholics.......they're all heading for the inferno straight off the bat..........then there's the Episcopalians and their homo priests.....etc, etc".

Furthermore, if "three in four are..... lost and perishing" can we therefore conclude that the remaining one fourth is home and dry or "saved", if you will?

What is the value of this number crunching? Is it really any concern of mine? Does it alter in any way the fact that I'm supposed to live out the Gospel irrespective of what fraction of humanity believes the Christian message? I mean, in my daily sphere of work and family, what is this supposed to mean?

My faith preaches a "brick by brick" approach. One person at a time, as Mother Teresa used to say.

13 posted on 02/23/2010 1:18:43 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: Between the Lines

This is not just a Baptist thing but is rampant throughout all of Christendom. All of us must repent, period. We are far too divided and argue over foolish things way too much. I really believe that the sorry state our nation is in related to this. We must get down to the basics as St. Paul once preached to early Christendom which was highly divisive and full of infighting. This passage from I Corinthians 1:10-31 resonates powerfully to our current situation and should be our rallying call to become effective:

10 Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,* by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you should be in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you should be united in the same mind and the same purpose. 11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters.* 12What I mean is that each of you says, ‘I belong to Paul’, or ‘I belong to Apollos’, or ‘I belong to Cephas’, or ‘I belong to Christ.’ 13Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God* that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16(I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power.

Christ the Power and Wisdom of God

18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written,‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.’

20Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those who believe. 22For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.

26 Consider your own call, brothers and sisters:* not many of you were wise by human standards,* not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to reduce to nothing things that are, 29so that no one* might boast in the presence of God. 30He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31in order that, as it is written, ‘Let the one who boasts, boast in* the Lord.’


14 posted on 02/23/2010 1:18:54 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberalism is the politics of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
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To: In veno, veritas
Maybe he should just try the Bible and realize that God has already done everything to make him righteous.

That is exactly what a lot of churches including my own are forgetting.

15 posted on 02/23/2010 1:20:06 PM PST by HOYA97 (Hoya Saxa = What Rocks)
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To: Mr Rogers
Let me also add to MrEdd and point out that it is solely the work of God that converts the heathen soul. To say that any of my words or works does it takes the glory away from God. He may work through me, but it is still God's work and not mine.
16 posted on 02/23/2010 1:24:05 PM PST by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Amen


17 posted on 02/23/2010 1:25:41 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Kyrie eleison.)
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To: marshmallow

Well, one way of estimating is to look at church membership. In many parts of the country, you are a freak if you go to church on Sunday. The Pacific NW has very few churches for its population, and they are not well attended.

You can use surveys. If 75% believe God is an impersonal force, for example, then you would know there are a lot who don’t know the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If anything, I’d guess this underestimates the number of lost in the USA. We wouldn’t have debates on homosexual marriage, or be borrowing 50% of our federal budget, if we were majority Christian.

As the report says, it impacts where and how one spends money for church planting. “Planting” churches somewhere so folks can drive 3 miles instead of 4 when going to church is less useful than planting churches where there are none. And I believe a part of their message is to wake up!

34 Then Jesus explained: “My nourishment comes from doing the will of God, who sent me, and from finishing his work. 35 You know the saying, ‘Four months between planting and harvest.’ But I say, wake up and look around. The fields are already ripe for harvest. 36 The harvesters are paid good wages, and the fruit they harvest is people brought to eternal life. What joy awaits both the planter and the harvester alike! 37 You know the saying, ‘One plants and another harvests.’ And it’s true. 38 I sent you to harvest where you didn’t plant; others had already done the work, and now you will get to gather the harvest.” - John 4


18 posted on 02/23/2010 1:31:15 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: In veno, veritas

What does scripture say?

” 19For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. 23I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.” - 1 Cor 9


19 posted on 02/23/2010 1:33:26 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

If we - and that means me, not you - don’t weep for our selfishness and sin and ask God to forgive and heal, then revival won’t come. The problem with most churches today are those of us in them who prefer American Idol to spending time with God.

I’m glad to see the SBC call for repentance!

13”You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet.

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.


20 posted on 02/23/2010 1:37:41 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: In veno, veritas
He may work through me, but it is still God's work and not mine.

I'm former LCMS (now Methodist) and here's why this idea breaks down, in my opinion. It is still me deciding to receive the Eucharist; me deciding to read the Scriptures; me deciding to pray; me going to confession, etc...

I did not save myself, but I do actively choose to participate in the salvation Christ has wrought for me by being where He promises to meet me. The very act of wanting to meet Him in those places is an activity in which I choose to enter. I never met a Lutheran worth his salt who would claim that a person could maintain faith by ignoring God's means of grace. As such, it doesn't follow to me that a person is entirely passive when he does pursue those means.

21 posted on 02/23/2010 2:10:18 PM PST by ajr276
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To: Between the Lines

I believe they are correct.. Somewhere in the midst of the feel good Olsteen prosperity gospel , the saddleback and willow creek methods the message that we are all sinners in need of a Savior has become secondary .The old hell , fire and brimstone pastors became a butt of jokes..but people heard and understood that God is angry over the sin and rebellion of men. We do not need Jesus to make us prosperous or famous or happy we need Him to save us from the fire of hell.


22 posted on 02/23/2010 5:45:00 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Between the Lines

the convention still baptized 33,887 less people in 2008 compared to 1950.....

My Christ - centered, Bible believing SBC church baptizes someone most every Sunday - 2 this past Sunday. This is a weird statistic anyway - why compare to 1950, when the baby boom was starting? What is the current trend?


23 posted on 02/23/2010 5:57:03 PM PST by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Nope. Not gonna do it.)
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To: Mr Rogers

It was always my understanding the the southern baptist are not calvinists.


24 posted on 02/23/2010 7:15:58 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule (Climate-gate is here so can Darwin-gate be far behind?)
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To: Between the Lines

***Dr. Ronnie Floyd ***

Pastor of the BIG Church at Springdale and Rogers, Arkansas.

It has been said that some big business deals are concluded in the pews of that church during sermons.


25 posted on 02/23/2010 7:19:43 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Between the Lines; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...

Good for them; God loves the sincere penitent, always has, always will.


26 posted on 02/23/2010 7:21:40 PM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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To: Between the Lines
My dad used to say that the Southern Baptists were the Roman Catholic Church of the south.

Personally I just don't think SBC'ers are really into evangelism. I'm talking about individuals. Many of the evangelical methods suggested sound like a slight variation of the telemarketwers approach. Also, its been my perception that alot of these churches really ask alot from the church visitor. They expect the visitor to pretty much impose himself/herself on the church. The church membership ought to be seeking out the visitor and really welcome them but they really dont do that. Most church members are generally pretty tribalistic. IMHO.

27 posted on 02/23/2010 7:22:09 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule (Climate-gate is here so can Darwin-gate be far behind?)
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To: Mr Rogers
Maybe the SBC is seeing less passion as it becomes more Calvinist...

Interesting point.

28 posted on 02/23/2010 7:25:22 PM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

I’m ex-military, and have moved around a lot. I think you are pretty accurate. Many SBC congregations are comfortable, and don’t really WANT to reach others. IMHO. I’ve been in some wonderful congregations, but I’d say more than half I’ve seen were social clubs for the saved.


29 posted on 02/23/2010 7:34:33 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

Also - traditionally, the SBC has not been Calvinist. In the last 20 years, it has become more so, with the national leadership pushing it to go farther. The seminaries tend to be more Calvinist than the congregations.


30 posted on 02/23/2010 7:37:53 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
I was at a very large SBC church in a wealthy suburb of a Southern city last weekend for a conference. I'm grateful that they offered their facility for the conference, but ...

I go to a 150-year-old Catholic parish in the inner city. We get all kinds: families with lots of kids, street people, poor, rich, black, white, lawyers, doctors, unemployed people. Our two regular priests are from poor countries; both speak with an accent. The church building itself, while traditional and beautiful in kind of a kitchy way, has been ... well-loved. Some of the pews are broken. Some of the kneelers are, too. Sometimes the HVAC system doesn't work; sometimes it's the sound system that's broken. The restrooms are in an even more decrepit building next door (which used to be the parish school; now it's sort of a parish hall); stepping into one is sort of like going back to the 1940's.

By contrast, the SBC church ... we met in an auditorium, not the main sanctuary. The auditorium had a state-of-the-art sound system and giant tv screens on the walls advertising various church programs about almost every topic imaginable. When the speaker wasn't speaking, the sound system played soft Christian contemporary music. The stage also had a drum set, keyboard, etc. In the corridor outside, the church had its own restaurant (!!!), and a manned information desk by the front door (a concierge??). The restrooms were like something you'd experience in a 4-star hotel, complete with (faux?) marble walls.

I'm not making any moral judgement. The contrast was just very striking to me.

31 posted on 02/23/2010 9:17:54 PM PST by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: Campion

I visited a church in Phoenix (maybe Mesa) like that. OTOH, the SBC church I was a member of until last week is still meeting in an office building 14 years after it started. The church I’m likely to join (still praying about it) meets in a school cafeteria.

But the wealthy churches are too comfortable. You don’t know if the chill running down your spine is the Holy Spirit, or the Air Conditioning!


32 posted on 02/23/2010 9:29:08 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
As wrong as the Catholic church is on any number of peripheral issues, your team was right about the American State Church, the public education system. The Southern Baptists have yet to embrace the call of the Exodus Mandate to withdraw their support -- and their children -- from the temples of secular humanism.

If their Gospel isn't good enough for their own children, why should the rest of the world give them the time of day?

33 posted on 02/23/2010 11:37:34 PM PST by RJR_fan (Christians need to reclaim and excel in the genre of science fiction.)
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To: Mr Rogers

“Why worry about the lost? If God wants the heathen converted, let Him do it! Maybe the SBC is seeing less passion as it becomes more Calvinist...”

It seems to me you misunderstand Calvinism. God has told US how to do it!

His predetermined method is found in Romans 10 14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”

The elect are saved as a result of faithful, obedient Christians preaching the Word of God.


34 posted on 02/24/2010 5:22:51 AM PST by Diapason
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

I live in NC not far from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. When we home schooled my home school support group included faculty and students at Southeastern, many of whom were Calvinist Baptists. I was surprised at that. Other Baptists we met, the old school ones, felt the Calvinists were hijacking their church. I sensed a tension between the two groups and wondered how it would play out. Since I no longer home school, I don’t hear what is happening first hand. The couple we remained close to have become independent Baptist and are now in VA.


35 posted on 02/24/2010 6:16:08 AM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: RnMomof7

Amen!


36 posted on 02/24/2010 7:41:34 AM PST by Jaded (I realized that after Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F)
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To: Campion

“I’m not making any moral judgement. The contrast was just very striking to me.”

I felt the same way back in 1976 when I visited the (then) new Basilica of Guadalupe in Mexico City. There were peasants in rags walking on their knees to pray at the shrine.

I understand the basilica now also has a Domino’s Pizza franchise.


37 posted on 02/24/2010 7:52:25 AM PST by Jedidah (Character, courage, common sense are more important than issues.)
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To: Between the Lines

Well...

Being a Southern Baptist (although only for about the last 10 years)I can say that the good Doctor Floyd is right. We’ve (for the most part) really dropped the ball in getting the Gospel out to the people who need it.

For instance, our church has AC (only the 2nd one I’ve ever attended that does), a gym, 2 kitchens (one of which is in the process of being updated to help with disaster relief), a website (with the new ability to give online, if you so choose), an espresso bar (hey, it’s Western Washington...what do you expect?), AND recently announced plans to possibly expand the church into a NEW building within the next 4 to 5 years.

What we DON’T have is new people coming in the door.

Granted, we do occasionally have a few, but for the most part it’s the same people every Sunday. We maybe have 35 people in our 1st service, although the 2nd service is usually full up (about 180-200). Last week, our pastor said we were having a special business meeting to see about a possible 3rd service. What for? Unless he sees something that I do not, we’re not growing.

Speaking for myself, I confess that I have not followed Jesus’ command to “go and make disciples of all nations”. There are many things that I have not done as a supposed ‘Christian man’ that require some personal repentance on my part. My life has not been a shining example to others on why they would want Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I can only imagine that there are other men and women in our church that feel as I do...at least, I hope so.

As far as the statistics they mentioned...I don’t believe 90% of the world is lost. I think the percentage is greater to the good, but not by much. As for the 1.6 billion people that have no way to hear the Gospel, I can tell you that they’re referring to the Muslim world, where evangelism warrants a death penalty. As for America, it seems to me there are many, many people who are abandoning God because He no longer fits into their lifestyle. Our pResident isn’t helping any, especially since he seems to worship himself...and wants others to do the same.

Yes...I agree that we, as Southern Baptists, and also as Christians, need to repent before God and ask Him what He wants us to do and how He wants us to do it. It may be completely different than what we think we should do. His plans don’t always make sense, but they WORK.

I am forwarding the article on to my pastor. We’ll see what happens.


38 posted on 02/24/2010 7:56:20 AM PST by hoagy62 (.)
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To: Mr Rogers
Nice perversion of the Gospel. In these passages, Paul is specifically mentioning not putting up obstacles in the way if the Gospel (12). But if you happen to look back at the second half of chapter 1 and also chapter 2, you'll see that Paul attributes conversion solely as God's work by the Spirit.

Scripture positively ascribes conversion exclusively to God: John 6:44, Romans 1:5-7, Col. 1:12-13, by His grace: Phil 1:29, Eph. 2:8-9,and by His power: Eph. 1:19, 2 Cor. 4:6.

We may be vessels of the Gospel, but the Gospel, which converts man, is the solely the power of God.

39 posted on 02/24/2010 8:09:51 AM PST by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
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To: Mr Rogers
Maybe the SBC is seeing less passion as it becomes more Calvinist...

The Calvinist word is a big no no in the SBC, we say reformed instead. ;)

40 posted on 02/24/2010 8:11:22 AM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: Between the Lines
The report also recommends entrusting to the International Mission Board – the international missions agency of the SBC – the ministry to reach the unreached people groups in the world and in North America. Many unreached groups that may be difficult to reach overseas are residing in the United States, the report points out.

The most "unreached" group in America are the children living in Christian homes!!! Yes, I **seriously** mean it.

***EVERY**government school in this nation preaches and teaches a godless and atheistic worldview! ALL of them!!!Any Christian parent who sends their child to a government school is abandoning their child to atheistic secularism.

A Christian's **most** important mission field is his **own** child. The children of his congregation are his next most important mission field!

As for Christian teachers:

If they haven't been fired yet then they are the **USEFUL IDIOTS** of the atheists! ( Yes, I am being harsh.) These Useful Idiot Christian teachers are doing two things:

1) They are attempting to sneak in a little Christian thought into a curriculum that is godless by law. They teach the children that Christians are sneakly lawbreakers.

2)They teach children that Christians are lukewarm, weak and unwilling to get fired for doing what's right, and will accept money for betraying their Christian principles. So...What did Christ say about being lukewarm?

If Christians and Christian teachers really care about their kids and missionary work, they will do everything necessary to get kids out of the government schools. They will also work to see that all government schools are shut down and that all children in this nation have access to a privately delivered Christian education.

Christian education could be very inexpensively delivered if we abandon the idea of Prusian-modeled and factory-like institutional school. Homeschool, one room schools in the homes of members, mini-schools, homeschool co-ops, and tutoring centers are other options.

41 posted on 02/24/2010 8:14:45 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: Jedidah
I understand the basilica now also has a Domino’s Pizza franchise.

Tacky!

42 posted on 02/24/2010 8:16:57 AM PST by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: marshmallow
What is the value of this number crunching? Is it really any concern of mine?

The report is designed for the leaders of the church and not the laity. It is the same as the number crunching going on in the head office of a corporation that has little or no concern to the average worker. But I do think that the numbers are an important tool for our leaders.

43 posted on 02/24/2010 8:17:09 AM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: ajr276
You're turning the means of grace into works of salvation, but miss the whole picture. When you mention them in that way, you turn them into external works and miss that through the Word and Sacraments, God does something to you. Consider the self-righteous Pharisee who remained unconverted though he always searched scripture and attended to God's commands.

All that you've proved is that we can commit spiritual suicide and fall away from grace. But that is not the same as choosing to believe in Christ! It's kinda like life, God grants it and he can take it away, but I can also commit suicide. But no matter how strong or determined to live I am, I can still die at any moment.

44 posted on 02/24/2010 8:22:58 AM PST by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
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To: hoagy62
Speaking for myself, I confess that I have not followed Jesus’ command to “go and make disciples of all nations”.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please read post #41:

I think of it like a stone being thrown in the water. There is the big splash in the middle with lessening rings of action and force radiating outward.

Our most important mission is self-conversion. It is like an airliner where the flight attendant says, “Put the oxygen mask on your **own** face first before helping others!”

The next most important mission field is that of our own children, followed by the children of our congregation.

With armies of righteous children being saved then we can have many, many stones being thrown in the water, and the radiating rinks of influence will reach everyone in our neighborhoods, towns, cities, state, nation and the **entire** world.

Christian denominations of all sects have been greatly negligent in seeing that every child in this nation has access to a very low cost, nearly free, or tuition-free education. Shame on them that nearly 50 million children in this nation are condemned to attend atheistic indoctrination centers ( mis-named “public” schools.

Also...Shame on Christians for allowing government schools to exist. With their votes they could have shut these godless madrasses down decades ago.

45 posted on 02/24/2010 8:24:27 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: In veno, veritas
We’ve (for the most part) really dropped the ball in getting the Gospel out to the people who need it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Getting the Gospel out to people who need it?....Hm?...Like their children and the nation's children?

Nearly all Christian sects are guilty of failing their **CHILDREN**! If they were properly evangelizing their children we would not have nearly 50 million of our nation's children in government schools.

In fact, if Christians of all sects were doing their jobs, every child in this nation would have access to a very, very low cost Christian education, and there would be NO government schools because Christian votes would have closed every one of them!

(Please read post #41.)

46 posted on 02/24/2010 8:32:33 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: Campion

I think it’s tacky, too, but I understand that the church gets money from it.


47 posted on 02/24/2010 8:38:39 AM PST by Jedidah (Character, courage, common sense are more important than issues.)
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To: In veno, veritas
I don't believe I've committed spiritual suicide, for I still recognize that it is Christ who is doing the doing in the sacraments. What I reject is the idea that it isn't a discipline to allow Christ to do that work. I've had enough days where I haven't wanted to go to church, or wanted to read Scripture or wanted to confess my sin to know that none of them are an entirely passive experience. At the end of the day I have to decide to receive God's grace or I don't receive it. Put another way, I can only receive what I choose to receive. Does God do the sanctifying through the sacraments? Of course. But there's no sanctifying if I don't decide to receive Christ through His means.

As for the Pharisee, his sin was puffed up knowledge through reading the Scriptures; not failing to recognize that it is God working through the Scriptures that matters.

48 posted on 02/24/2010 8:47:44 AM PST by ajr276
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To: wintertime
Christian education could be very inexpensively delivered if we abandon the idea of Prusian-modeled and factory-like institutional school. Homeschool, one room schools in the homes of members, mini-schools, homeschool co-ops, and tutoring centers are other options.

Our chruch runs a University-model school. It is kind of like a school for homeschoolers.

49 posted on 02/24/2010 9:39:01 AM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: wintertime; hoagy62
I think you were responding to the post above mine.
50 posted on 02/24/2010 10:57:01 AM PST by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
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