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An Autopsy of Mike Bickle of IHOP and the N.A.R. ^ | Giovanni Chinnici

Posted on 05/26/2010 12:45:13 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood

An autopsy of…Mike Bickle

By Giovanni Chinnici

I love to study the Bible, and through the attentive study of this perfect book I have learned that it is indeed the infallible word of God.

The more I study it the more I like it. I have learned that the Bible never contradicts itself, and the more I understand it the more I also understand how profound the love of God is for each one of us. There was a day when the Lord, by his precious grace, called me to be a minister, and it is also part of the ministry to make sure that in my daily life I live like a good “Berean”.

This is why I wrote the following paper for my own personal information. If anything is proven to be inaccurate, I will definitely be the first to make the necessary corrections. -Giovanni Chinnici

First of all, I have to say that I found extremely difficult to find clear information regarding the childhood, or at least the very early life of Mike Bickle. Therefore I did the best I could to integrate all the possible information available to me, in this brief report which is an account of who Mike Bickle was, and is today.

Former senior leader (until July, “99, senior pastor) at Metro Christian Fellowship, Kansas City, Kansas (Formerly: Kansas City Fellowship). Pastored the Kansas City Prophets.

Promotes Latter Rain1, Manifest Sons of God2 theology.

Prominent leader in the Toronto Blessing3 movement.

Mike Bickle is the Director of the International House of Prayer of Kansas City, a 24-hour a day ministry of “Worship with Intercession” in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David. They have continued without stopping in intercession and worship since September 19, 1999. Currently, over 400 people serve on the full-time IHOP-KC staff. He is also the President of the Forerunner School of Ministry, a full-time Bible school in Kansas City . He has authored several books including Passion for Jesus , Growing in the Prophetic, The Pleasures of Loving God and After God’s Own Heart. Mike’s teaching emphasizes how to grow in passion for Jesus through intimacy with God.

I researched about the Kansas City Prophets phenomenon as closer as I could possible do, and there is absolutely no doubt that it is not an easy task to understand this concept without studying the chain that connects Bickle to Bob Jones, Paul Cain, Ernie Gruen, and others (For those who are interested about their biographies I can provide them upon request).

This chain which appears broken is not broken at all, it is invisible to those who unfortunately know very little, and give up on research because of the understandable effort and persistence that it requires.

There is a very special event which changed Bickle’s life, he heard the “voice of God” through a young prophet and later in Cairo, Egypt in 1982 predicting that he would be used to raise up a mighty work in the earth.

Later he was told that this work would be based in Kansas City.4

In order to understand the continuity of belief, it is absolutely necessary to refer back to the earlier events connected with the KCP (Kansas City Prophets), a group of prophets who were gathered together at Kansas City Fellowship (KCF), called Metro Christian Fellowship, a church founded on a supposed prophecy received by its pastor, Mike Bickle, widely promoted in his book “Growing in the Prophetic”, a book strongly advised by most members of the IHOP.

On page 30 Bickle cites the prophet Paul Cain’s belief that 3 things will characterize this great visitation unparalleled power – purity - and unity.

Naturally, prophet Cain does not give any Biblical references for this belief.

Then on page 31 Bickle says “In my understanding, it includes angelic visitations, dreams, visions, and signs and wonders in the sky, as well as an increase in prophetic revelation, even the kind given through the subtle impressions of the Holy Spirit.”

Again, he gives no Scripture for this belief, it is simply his understanding.

Harp and Bowl initiative of round-the-clock prayer

Now some of the central figures involved in that discredited resurgence of the Latter Rain Movement are coming to public notice again for their Harp and Bowl initiative of round-the-clock prayer. What comes next is simply the literal (an very good report) made by Tricia Tillin of Banner Ministries in 2003.

IHOP stands for International House of Prayer. Paul Cain used the letters also as an acrostic for the vision of the venture, which was Intercession, Holiness, Offerings and Prophecy.

Here is one official description of the work: “The International House of Prayer is a 24-hours a day, citywide, worship and warfare, inter-denominational prayer ministry serving the body of Christ. This ministry is modeled after the tabernacle of David with singers and musicians being released to lead corporate intercession and worship 24-hours a day. This is an effective method for the churches in the county to come together and DWELL in unity so that God can unlock His commanded blessing. ...The Word of God Declares "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations" Mark 11:17. ... This House of Prayer for All Nations ministry includes continuous praise and prayer dethroning the principalities and power over a region declaring Gods sovereignty. This is in the spirit of Revelation 4-5 “Harp & Bowl” worship and warfare prayer gatherings, the harp representing praise and the bowl representing the prayers of the saints which is at the heart of David’s Tabernacle." (Revival Times website)

What is the “Harp and Bowl” vision?

"On May 7 1999, Mike Bickle and the IHOP ministry team dedicated a building to facilitate this ministry that began with 13 hours a day of intercession and spiritual warfare led by trained worship teams. In Sept. 1999, by God's grace they completed the full 24-hour a day schedule with singers and musicians leading each session. They believe that this model is the most effective context to train and send forth others who will 'plant' a House of Prayer in other cities.

Their prayer goal is to see a 24 hour a day, citywide, House of Prayer (in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David) established in every major city of the earth before the Lord's return." (Ibid.)

What must be understood about the Harp and Bowl idea is that it is firmly planted in the soil of Sonship/Manifested Sons of God (MSOG) doctrine. (While there are differences in emphasis and belief between these two teachings, for the sake of clarity I will refer to them as the same thing here.)

Tabernacle of David

The key is the “Tabernacle of David” idea. This is central to all the Harp and Bowl work.

"David built a tent, a physical place were Gods glory dwelt and were [sic] people could go to meet with God...Solomon erected an actual temple building in the pattern of his father David’s tabernacle and on two occasions, the Weight of the Glory of God filled the temple as the priests ministered in prayer, praise and prophecy...This is what Gods [sic] is asking us to do today. ...

We along with all of creation are longing for the unveiling of Gods power as God waits in heaven for the bowl of the prayers of the saints to be filled up so He can show His power. Prayer is directly related to the release of Gods power in scripture." (ibid)

The words "We along with all of creation are longing for the unveiling of Gods power" refer to the "manifestation of the sons of God" in Rom 8:19-23: For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

In MSOG teaching this scripture is taken to mean a powerful endtimes revelation of believers as glorified, transformed and perfected, and possessed by Christ to such a degree that they become One with him and become a living corporate Son of God on the earth, ruling with him.

This will be accomplished by the descent of "the glory" in a final overwhelming event that will transfigure all those who receive it. (Other less heretical versions have this event as a progression into spiritual perfection and holiness in the endtimes.)

But, the passage is actually about the Second Coming and at that time the faithful of all generations will be revealed to the world as those who are one in Christ, his Bride and His Chosen. They will be revealed to take their place beside Jesus on the throne, as he promised. Thus, righteous rule and order will be restored to the world even during the millennium.

When Jesus comes in triumph to set up his Kingdom, at that time nature will be restored to the fertility and beauty God intended, thus releasing creation from its bondage. THIS is what all creation longs for, and all mankind (if only they knew) - NOT for a spiritual invasion of love, a transfiguration of believers in the endtimes, a glory cloud or a latter rain anointing.

In any case, scripture says that we are ALREADY "sons of God" so the teaching that we have to attain sonship and "the adoption to sons" is off base from the very beginning.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. I Jn 3:2

Notice, too, that this "manifestation of the sons of God" takes place at the same time as the "redemption of our bodies" and that will not take place until the Resurrection. (Rev 20:6/John 6:40)

Nonetheless it is commonly taught today that we should work our way by levels up to sonship, and/or expect a massive anointing that will perfect and glorify the church (that is, just the prepared ones.) Whichever way you look at it, the symbol of David's Tabernacle figures large in the teaching. So let's look into that.

Psalm 132 states that David could not rest until a dwelling place was established. Isaiah 62:6 states, we are to give God no rest until Jerusalem becomes a praise in the earth. Jesus told us to watch and wait day and night until he comes. We are to establish continual prayer vigils: watching, warring and waiting. There will be no rest until God truly has a dwelling place and our Jerusalem becomes a praise on the earth, Acts 1:8. (Revival Times, as before)

As we see from the quote above, the Tabernacle of David is taken as a symbol of God’s Manifest Presence on earth. According to this teaching, we are to expect the Tabernacle to be rebuilt in the last days, not physically but spiritually by the church.

They base this on a verse taken out of context: Acts 15:16-17 "After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

This verse is of course a quote from the Old Testament. The original prophecy is found in Amos 9:8-15.

Notice carefully the context: In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Taken in context the scripture is about the restoration of the Remnant of Israel to their land and to God’s blessing! It is speaking about the Messiah (of whom David was a type) coming to repair all things and to restore the glory to Israel. That he did accomplish and we are the living proof of it. The “glory” – “the Holy Spirit” - DID at that time return to inhabit the “temple” of the Body of Christ and we are not still waiting for that event to take place. This scripture is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Notwithstanding, the Harp and Bowl vision is to copy the “blueprint” of the OT Tabernacle in order to return to the experience of David - kingship, rulership, priestly dominion and heavenly glory!

The Lord has given us a heavenly blueprint to enable us to tap into the throne room of God.

....When David established his tabernacle to God he re-instituted the Melchizedeck priestly, kingly anointing. Melchizedeck was a King and Priest; David was a King and a Priest...

Scripture declares all Christians to be Kings and Priests. Jesus restored the Melchizedeck priesthood and kingship combined into one office and thus we as the Body of Christ are vessels of restoration for the Melchizedeck Priesthood. (Ibid.) This “priesthood” is seen as dominion and rulership, as the Government of God on the earth. How is it to be achieved? By non-stop worship, music and intercession. In the House of Prayer worship releases the kingly spiritual authority to go out and demonstrate the power of Christ. We as New Testament Christian function in our kingly role through ministering in our priestly anointing of prayer, intercession, praise and prophecy.

If we are to have global revival and awakening we need to have a restoration of 24 hour praise and intercession all over the world, Its time that the fulfillment of the prophecies of Old to become reality. It is time that we fulfill the word of God and obey the commands of Jesus, to make it an occupation of occupying the enemies camp, “to occupy until He comes.”

...The church is to be the vessel, the temple through which Gods beauty, glory and power manifest in the earth today. (ibid)


…music is playing an increasingly important role in the bringing of the anointing and the glory.

Although not exactly sure why music is such a powerful medium for spiritual experiences, I know this is true. Time and again music, singing, chanting, praising and signing in tongues for long periods is presented as the way to achieve manifestations.

A study posted to about the role of worship in the Harp and Bowl model is enlightening on this subject.

The Ministry of the Harp, the Bowl and the Scepter

Subtitled: The Harp of Praise, the Bowl of Incense and the Scepter of Righteousness - releasing apostolic power in the earth.

• Effective praise and worship accomplishes numerous things - first of which is the drawing of humanity to God....

• The Scripture states as well that the Lord dwells upon or inhabits the praises of His people. (Ps.22:3)

• Within His Presence comes His power....

• Anointed worship affects us on every level, body, soul and spirit....

• Praise and worship also transforms us (2 Cor. 3:18).

• Praise and worship is also associated with the release of the gifts and anointings of the Holy Spirit...

• There is even a dimension of spiritual warfare and Kingdom authority released during times of high praises to God....

• Praise is a weapon of war, because praise arouses the Lord to a place of zeal. Praise releases judgment against our enemies.

• Wherever there is true worship, we also see a release of a dimension of authority that is characteristic of the apostolic. Heaven's authority visits earth....Restored dimensions of worship release restored dimensions of authority, out of which apostolic order is released on the earth.

• Prayer is essential for the release of heaven's rule on the earth. ...Prayer fuels the fire of God's manifested Glory in the church.

Further portions from this study show how David's Tabernacle is a model for the DOMINION of Apostles and Prophets in the church today: The tabernacle of David, known of and planned by God from eternity past, was now beginning to be rebuilt. But what exactly is this "House" that God said He Himself would rebuild in the last days?...In the days of King David's dominion, righteousness ruled out of Zion.... David's rule on earth represented God's rule through man....A restoration of David's fallen tabernacle is not only a return to worship, but a return to God's rule among men. While David is known as a prophet, he can also be viewed as a type of apostolic government through his service as a righteous king. The House of David, in fact, is destined to rule forever throughout eternity....... The significance of this "House" is much greater than most realize as pertaining to the characteristics, dominion and commission of the last days Church.

Now therefore we have leapt straight out of the Old Testament into the New, seeing a direct symbolic parallel between the Tabernacle of David's day and the Church of today. To some extent this is accurate, since we are indeed "God's House" and the dwelling place of His Spirit. However, did the writers of the NT mean us to understand that we would RULE as kings and priests (before the Second Coming) in the same way as the OT King David?

We see this "house" described in several sections of New Testament Scripture. Paul described it in his letter to the Ephesians....

WE are the house of God. We are the tabernacle being restored.

We have become the expression of kingdom dominion after the order of David, a "nation of kings and priests"... It is our destiny and purpose to be extensions of God's rule in the earth.... He desires to rule THROUGH US.

He desires to grant apostolic authority - His rule - to His church. He wants to extend His scepter of righteousness through us. That scepter is bestowed and utilized as we take up the ministry of the harp of praise, and the bowl of prayer and intercession. Then through the authority of righteousness we will reign on the earth - extending his rule as "the fullness of Him who fills all in all." (Eph. 1:23)

Since dominion and governmental rule is expected (accomplished by continual praise and worship in the Harp and Bowl model) there is an element of judgement upon sinners and the rebellious who fail to conform to this Davidic Rule. This means that Christians today are anticipating their role as judges!

When we are releasing the ministry of the harp - worship and praise to the King of the Kingdom; and the ministry of the bowls - prayers from the saints for His kingdom to come and His will to be done; we then see His rule as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah begin to happen in and through his people. We have known Jesus as the Lamb of God, our Savior, but soon we will see Him manifested as a Lion, a ferocious Warrior and the King and Judge of all the earth. ... He is about to be revealed as Ruler and Judge. With that revelation will also come the realization that the last-days church is being called with Him and through Him into that same role of ruler and judge...

It is clear that there is MUCH more behind the Harp and Bowl idea than simple intercession for our localities and the desire to see people blessed and saved! While it’s never a bad idea to pray, the concept of 24-hour prayer and worship is rooted in revivalist dogma. It is supposed, somehow, to impel God to "come", to "judge" and to "rule" on earth - with his Church as his governmental Agency! This is far from scriptural.

Does God Inhabit Praise?

Finally, since so much is being invested in the concept of anointed praise, it needs to be said that God’s Presence DOES NOT "inhabit" or "dwell in" praise! When we worship we are not "setting up a Throne" for Jesus, or calling down the Glory. Much (or all?) of the teaching on praise bringing God's presence into the Church is based on one obscure verse of scripture that I believe has been misinterpreted. (See psalm22.html for an article on this subject.) Psalm 22 verse three says "But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel."

The word "inhabit" means to sit down (as to judge) but is translated elsewhere in the bible as "enthroned" - but does this verse say in Hebrew that God is enthroned on our praise? NO. The verse literally reads: But Thou/ Holy/ enthroned/ the praise of/ Israel. Some translations, therefore, opt for a different interpretation, for the Hebrew is ambiguous here. For instance the NIV translates it "Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel."

The Living Bible also opts for this interpretation: " for you are holy. The praises of our fathers surrounded your throne; they trusted you and you delivered them." I do not personally like these translations but I am referring to them here simply to illustrate the ambiguity of the Hebrew.

One title of the Lord is "The Praise - or "boast" - of Israel". The scripture could therefore be translated as "Thou art holy, enthroned as the Praise of Israel."

But in any case, even if the conventional translation is accepted, does the idea of God enthroned upon praise actually mean that when we praise and worship God long enough and strong enough he actually comes down in his manifest presence to "inhabit" the Church - sometimes as a visible glory cloud of blue smoke or an overwhelming sensation of heaviness, or whatever? I do not believe that is what the scripture teaches.


I think it’s pretty conclusive that the Harp and Bowl’s origins are steeped in error; that the people involved in it are discredited; that its purpose is to bring about some kind of false revival; and that its foundation, doctrines and modus operandi are flawed beyond all hope of recovery. This is yet another arm of the endtimes apostasy.

What does Mike Bickle believe ?

The following philosophies represent those commonly held by organizations following these theologies. The actual beliefs of any one organization may vary somewhat from the details presented below, but general theme remains the same.

A New Form and Standard for Christianity is emerging. It will change our entire understanding of what Christianity is. In 20 years it will be entirely different. Change will be so dramatic, the Christian church as we know it will oppose it. The change will come from outside the church.

Rapture of the “wicked” (Not of the saved!). God is to be revealed when he takes his throne in the temple. Christians cannot be deceived. City Churches: One church leadership per city. Other churches are to join the KCF, transfer membership to them (or associated churches in other cities), and close down their churches. Joel’s Army/Kingdom Now/Dominion theology: the church is to conquer and subdue the earth in order to bring in the millennium.

New Breed/manifest Son’s of God: We will be perfected into our glorified bodies prior to Christ’s return. This will allow us to subdue the earth.

Christians become “gods”. We have the “divine” nature. Christ comes into us as a “seed” and grows into a “prophet”.

Christ therefore comes “within us”. Jesus was sent as a “pattern” for the corporate church (Corporate church in this context means that the church becomes Christ. Christ is not complete without us because he is the head and we are the body). The current church has the spirit of the “Antichrist”.

Some of His Heretical Quotations

“There is a dimension that is coming, and now is, that we have no frame of reference for and most of us think that we do.”

“... and they (apostles, prophets) do things that you have no frame of reference for understanding because, believe me, what’s going to be coming down in the next twenty years you and I have no frame of reference for understanding.

It is going to be so unusual you are not going to be able to look at the word for every manifestation and find one there because the Spirit of the Lord has so many manifestations that you and I know nothing about.” (Divine Appointment [Introduction], Mike Bickle, 3/29/89, cassette tape)

Similar quotation: I believe that God is going to allow us to see and to even partake in this restoration, this is a major statement and I want you to pay attention closely, to the restoration of the New Testament standard...

I believe that God is going to renovate the entire understanding of what Christianity is in the nations of the Earth. I believe that the way that 99 per cent of us across the world as believers understand Christianity, in 20 years there will be a totally different understanding of what Christianity is from what it is right now.

I believe the understanding of it, the standard of life and the expression of Christianity as we know it, I believe God is going to restore it in the Earth in this generation. Bickle, Overview of Corporate Long Term Vision. January 5, 1986

God intends us to be like gods, he intends us to be like the Son of God.

... God has conceived in His heart of a plan to make a race of men that would live like gods on the Earth. He has conceived in His heart to have Sons that would live like His Son, the Lord Jesus lived... That we were to be on earth the extension and manifestation of God’s life in heaven.

...When a person comes up and declares what Sonship is about, the religious community comes up and says “blasphemy!” That’s what they did to Jesus. The religious mind will always call this heresy.

When the religious mind comes in contact with the revelation of what a Son of God is they will always say it is not right because it’s too high.

Mike Bickle, Glory and Dominion of Sonship, Part 2, cassette tape, as cited by Bob Hunter, The Toronto Blessing.

Jesus was the beginning, but our children and us, we’re included in this... we’re the end of this thing. (Manifested Sons of God) School for Prophecy, Session 7, Vineyard Ministries, 1989

There’s Apostles, there’s Imminent Apostles and there’s Most Imminent Apostles....

There’s various levels of Apostles and the Lord was showing that..... out of This Movement there would be 35 apostles.... that will be of the highest level of apostolic ministry..... the whole government of this movement in it’s highest level in all places it goes. . . . the government rests on Apostles and Prophets. . . .

Though I believe there will be hundreds apostles in this movement and every movement will have its apostles and prophets, I believe God. He’s merging Apostles in a number of movements now and He’s going to add prophets to the prophets that are already there and He’s going to bring us to higher statures.

Visions & Revelations, Kansas City Fellowship Audio Cassette

False prophet Mike Bickle says that God MUST answer prayers in a big way because “without the breakthrough, we’ll die…”

International School of the Prophets Conference 2000, Tape # 000512011A, Friday May 12,2000, 11:00AM session.

Does that sound like faithful waiting on the Living God and being satisfied with trusting Him even when He doesn’t “break through” with a sign or a wonder?

Book Review Part 1 - "TAKING OUR CITIES FOR GOD" - (Chapters 1-6) - By John Dawson - YWAM Publishing 1989


Friday Church News Notes, October 22, 2004 (David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061,,, 866-295-4143).

Many of the charismatic prophets today admit that they are wrong at least part of the time, but they claim that a New Testament prophet does not have to be correct in all of his prophecies. Mike Bickle of Kansas City helped promote the prophetic ministry among the Vineyard Churches when he joined John Wimber in 1990.

Probably the most troubling aspect of Bickle’s belief system, is his doctrine of less than 100% accuracy in prophecy. In other words, one can stand up in a service, even as a recognized prophet, and give a prophesy in the name of the Lord and if it is less than 100% accurate that’s okay.

In his chapter Stoning False Prophets, he attempts to make a big distinction between O.T. prophets and N.T. prophets.

That is fine as far as it goes, but he does not require accuracy of N.T. prophets than was required of the Old. I once shared Bickle’s belief with a colleague student, and he told me that probably Bickle does not agree with his own statements anymore. I simply answered: “then his book Growing in the Prophetic should not be still out there!

And what about his most recent statement on the same topic: “The easy response is to discount a prophetic person who gets it wrong. That’s not the right response”. He says we should not label it “false prophecy” but “soulish” or “humanly generated” prophesying.

This is nonsense, and heresy. If a man speaks by prophecy, he is to be judged as a prophet, and one of the tests is accuracy. One need not be a Christian to discern the flagrant error in the above and following statements.

Prophetic Movement Confronts Extremes, Charisma Online, Oct. 7, 2004

Dear reader don’t be deceived by terminology Another subtle deception abounding, comes through the use of terminology to lure Christians into thinking that a very high form of godliness will earn them a distinctive place in “Joel’s Army” as a potentate.

There is a great emphasis on praying and becoming holy before the Lord. It sounds so good, so attainable. Yet when Bob Jones and Mike Bickle discuss intercession, a perfectly scriptural term, but they are meaning something rather unscriptural.

Bob Jones: Intercession releases revelation and revelation will release proclamation, so get on your knees and get what God’s wisdom is and then blow the trumpet, and it’ll work.

Mike Bickle: Okay, let’s get that.........Intercession Releases Revelation...... revelation releases the proclamation under the anointing to bring it to pass. Visions and Revelations, KCF

On the surface of the above quote it sounds as though Bob Jones and Mike Bickle are exhorting Christians to pray for grace, understanding and power to preach the Gospel of Christ with boldness.

But, that is not what is being shared. Farthest from that, the meaning behind the terms is that Christians pray to become Manifest Sons of God in Joel’s Army thus becoming the oracle of God and the executioner of God’s wrath on those that fail to comply or conform to the New Order of the Manifest Sons.5

“…to this day (at Shiloh and IHOP), the preoccupation is with teachings, concepts and hermeneutical styles that either imply or outright proclaim Latter Rain / Manifested Sonship / Dominion thinking.

At the very least it suggests confusion on their part if not outright self-deception, and certainly generates the same in the ears of those that hear them.” My Eight Years With The Kansas City Prophets, © Don Clasen March 2002

One Evangelical newsletter has this to say:

“The fallible-prophet idea is a recent invention from the imagination of self-proclaimed prophets who are confronted with misses all the time. Men like Mike Bickle, Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Jack Deere, and James Ryle have conspired to create a new paradigm of prophets who make mistakes in their predictions. This way anybody can do it.

By their definition, anyone who can guess right a lot of the time can be a prophet. Mike Bickle for example says, “Someone suggested that I write a follow up book that revealed all our mistakes in the prophetic ministry. He suggested I call it Some Said We Blundered. I almost agreed. Indeed, we’ve made many mistakes on our journey in the prophetic ministry.

When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him (Deuteronomy 18:22).

Furthermore, any Christian who has discernment the size of a flea would be able to discern Bickle’s errors, discount him as a false prophet, then avoid him as the Bible commands:

Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-16).

What should a wise Christian do? Avoid him? Label him a false prophet. How can Mike Bickle simply asserts “We have the horrible job called discernment.” ? Instead of false prophecy, Bickle identifies much that occurs in current prophetic circles as soulish or humanly generated, claiming that it comes from people who are genuinely sincere, but ultimately overzealous and attention-seeking. One of the basic teaching you from the Bible itself, from a good Pastor, Teacher, professor, in a Bible College is to be responsible to examine the Scripture, but Mike Bickle says: “cautions labelling prophets as false, even when their predictions do not come to pass !” Ok let me see if I understand his “lesson” properly.

So I am the one who is wrong, because I discount a prophetic person who gets it wrong? So discernment is a horrible job? So I should believe that a false prophecy isn’t false and lying in the name of God, but originates from sincere people who are simply overzealous and seeking time in the spotlight?

Are Bickle’s statements Biblical, or are they nothing more than a conditioning process to turn Christians away from the truth?

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

For years, many Christians have been conditioned to accept anything that comes down the pike, no matter how far out or ridiculous. Part of that conditioning process is to lift-up, admire and adore false prophets, downplay their false prophecies with a grin and shrug, brush the false prophecies off as simple mistakes, then concentrate on “all of the good things” the false prophet does. This is extremely dangerous territory for the Christian to be wandering around in. It opens the door wide open for the acceptance of all forms of deception, and shuts the door on Scriptural commands to test all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21); test the spirits (1 John 4:1); defend the faith (Jude 3), and proper interpretation of the Bible (2 Timothy 2:15). In Mark 13:22, Jesus warned that false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Yet, untold numbers of Christians are being seduced by individuals claiming to be Christian, along with the modern-day, multi-billion dollar per-year “signs and wonders” extravaganza.

This is evidenced by the massive numbers of followers who continue to donate money, attend conventions and “healing” crusades, purchase reading materials and trinkets of the trade. In spite of the deception, the followers defend those who are ripping them off spiritually and financially, and they do so without hesitation.

I have spent almost fifteen years studying one of the most dangerous, powerful, and despiteful cults on earth. The Jehovah’s Witnesses (Watchtower Bible & Tract Society). They are infamous for their false teachings. Their own false prophecies concerning the return of Christ and the end of the world date back to the late 1800’s. Here are but a few of the excuses they used when their prophecies failed: “God’s faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925.

They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass” (Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146).

“There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918 and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time. Later the faithful learned that these dates were definitely fixed in the Scriptures; and they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date, but to rely (and they do rely) upon the Word of God as to the events that must come to pass” (J. F. Rutherford, Vindication, 1931, pp. 338-339).

“True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end' to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them” (Awake magazine, Oct. 8, 1968).

“So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative...This prophet was not one man, but was a body of men and women...Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a prophet of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?” (Watchtower magazine, April 1, 1972, p. 197).

It sounds very familiar to me! Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses admit to making mistakes. However, they do it in such a way as to draw attention to their “mistakes,” not that they are dyed in the wool false prophets. Therefore, if we follow Bickle’s “discernment” in these areas, then a bank robber isn’t a thief; a case of beer a day drinker isn’t an alcoholic, and a woman who requires money for sex isn’t a prostitute. This means that the word-for- word quotes from Benny Hinn, and others, which were claimed to be prophecies, and failed were not actually not false prophecies at all, just simple mistakes?

In other word we are left with a man who claims divine revelations from the Lord. His revelations fail miserably, and He’s not a false prophet as the Bible teaches. Instead, he’s still a prophet who makes mistake after mistake after mistake. Eventually, his entire ministry becomes an enigma within an enigma; confusion within confusion, until no one except God can sort it out!

And, at some point during the process, the false prophet uses his position of unquestionable authority to levy threats and curses upon anyone man, woman or child who exposes him publicly (That is what Benny Hinn has done more times on TBN [Trinity Broadcasting Network] ).

In his book, Growing in the Prophetic, Bickle wrote: “someone suggested that I write a follow up book that revealed all our mistakes in the prophetic ministry. He suggested I call it Some Said We Blundered. I almost agreed. Indeed, we've made many mistakes on our journey in the prophetic ministry” (1996, p.11).

In reality, a book revealing their prophetic mistakes may develop into a multi-volume encyclopedia if, that is, there are enough trees to produce the paper!

Nevertheless, true Christianity is conviction of sin, repentance, accountability and responsibility. Indeed, if these people are Christian, let them repent, be responsible for their own actions, be accountable to the body of Christ and, most important, be accountable to Jesus Christ and the truth of His word.

I wish, but at the same time I strongly doubt Bickle would change his mind, and write the updating version of his book on prophecies. Somebody already suggested that the book should be renamed Warning! God Said We Are False Prophets.

“[Mike] Bickle cannot be talking about biblical prophecy or anything like it. He is, in fact, talking about human guesswork and human speculation. He is talking about hunches and hoping to be right at least part of the time.

The modern prophets duck behind their humanness to cover their repeated failures. This is not Scriptural prophecy at all, but percentages. This is a guessing game called prophecy. This is simply playing the odds and trying to be right on guesstimates” (Richard Fisher, “Growing Pains In The Prophetic,” 2001).

According to the September Charisma “91, and Christian Life news article, Ernie Gruen acknowledged that he had no authority to question or examine the validity of KCF’s teaching or practices. If the pastor of a church whose members are being hurt by aberrant doctrines of a neighboring church doesn’t have the authority to examine or question, then who does?

If someone stands up and speaks in the name of the Lord and they speak lies and error then they need to be openly REBUKED, sat down, and not allowed to speak publicly (Romans 16:17; Ephesians 5:11)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep (2 Peter 2:1-3).


“If you as a believer want to understand what this movement is really about, you must avail yourself of a practice that is in much disdain in our day. It's called theological education! And I'm not just talking about Bible study!

You desperately need to understand that the Bible itself needs to be accurately interpreted as to what it is saying and teaching. You need to understand that there are competing theological paradigms that people in church leadership will not educate you to, either because they don't understand them themselves, or because it's to their advantage to keep you ignorant of them, leading you around by the nose, perhaps for years, before you figure out what it's all about..

If you do not do this, you will not be able to appreciate the importance of what I and many others are trying to say to you.

Instead, you will be brainwashed into "submission to authority" and other intimidating arguments in a way that is far removed from traditional Protestant philosophy. You will end up doing as they tell you, instead of what Christ your Head is telling you (I Cor 11:3), even letting you study the Bible while not seeing the forest for the trees.

The only way around this is to see the big picture.”

My Eight Years With The Kansas City Prophets, © Don Clasen March 2002

Dear reader,

I truly thank you for your attention, and I would like to finish this brief study with some simple words:

1. The most important single principle in determining the true meaning of any doctrine of our faith is that we start with the clear statements of the Scriptures that specifically apply to it and use those to interpret the parable a, allegories, and obscure passage This allows Scripture to interpret Scripture.

The Dominionists frequently reverse this order, seeking to interpret the clear passages, using obscure passages, parables, and allegories.

2. The second most important principle is to consistently interpret by the literal, grammatical, historical method. This means the following:

a. Each word should be interpreted in the light of its normal ordinary usage that was accepted in the times in which it was written.

b. Each sentence should be interpreted according to the rules of grammar and syntax normally accepted when the document was written.

c. Each passage should also be interpreted in the light of its historical and cultural environment.

Most false doctrine and heresy of Church history can be traced to a failure to adhere to these principles. Church is filled with examples of disaster and wrecked lives wrought by men failing to base their doctrine, faith, and practice upon these two principles.6

Christians serve a holy God, and not some namby-pamby, fly-by-night, milk-sop, easily manipulated deity that changes its mind at the drop of a hat or at the whimsical lips of a false prophet.

Well my handwriting is on the wall, and I know some will not like it. What can I say. Also the pope was pretty angry at Luther’s 95 thesis. I am not even thinking to compare myself to Luther, that is why I think it is okay to be angry at me, but I truly wonder who is going to be angry at those who promote false prophecies, and false teachings?

I hope there will be a specific moment when those who say that they are sincere, at least them, will stop for a moment trying so hard to understand God’s heart, and allow God to search theirs (1 Chronicles 28:9) to repent, and be accountable to the body of Christ and, most important, be accountable to Jesus Christ, and His word.


1 Heretical movement popularized by Franklin Hall, William Branham, George Warnock, John Robert Stevens, etcetera. Elements of Latter Rain teachings are today being taught within certain renewal and revival movements. Considered to be one of today's most dangerous false teachings in the church, the movement's doctrines are taught and supported by a wide range of controversial teachers. They include Rick Joyner, C. Peter Wagner, Paul Cain, Cindy Jacobs, Bill Hamon, and countless others. We can sum up the Latter Rain or Dominion teaching this way: the Church must be restored and equipped to rule by the five-fold ministries. it must come to perfection and complete visible UNITY.

out of the purified church will come a spiritual elite corps, a Corporate Christ who possess the Spirit without measure they will purge the earth of all wickedness and rebellion they will judge the apostate Church they will redeem all creation, and restore the earth they will eventually overcome death itself in a counterfeit of the Rapture the Church will thus inherit the earth, and rule over it from the Throne of Christ. Tricia Tillin, 1997, "The New Thing"

2 The teaching that in the last days, a “new breed” of Christians will arise - the “Manifest Sons of God” - who will have super-natural spiritual power and be instrumental in subduing the earth. This movement is also referred to as “Joel’s Army.” It is claimed that these people will be perfected into their “glorified bodies” prior to Christ’s return. That perfection will allow them to subdue the earth for Jesus. Proponents of this doctrine also claim Christians, having a “divine nature,” become “gods.” They say Christ came into us as a “seed” and grows into a “prophet.” Thus Christ does not physically return, but returns within us. The rapture, according to this doctrine, will be of the wicked - not of believers. This teaching is part of what is known as “dominion theology” which teaches that an elite army of “overcomers” will either destroy or subdue all the enemies of Christ until they eventually gain power and authority throughout the world. The government of the nations will be upon their shoulders and when all the secular authorities, governments, princes and kings have finally submitted to them, Christ will return and they will present the kingdom to him. Clifford Hill, “Prophecy Today,” Vol. 7, No. 1 Eng., as cited in “Joel's Army,” 1991, Jewel van der Merwe, Discernment Min.

The doctrine also includes the idea that Jesus was sent as a “pattern” for the corporate church (Corporate church in this context means that the church becomes Christ. Christ is considered not complete without us because he is the head and we are the body). The current church, according this view, has the “spirit of the anti-Christ.” This teaching is akin to gnosticism This teaching is promoted in some of today's controversial Renewal and Revival Movements (e.g. by Paul Cain).

3 One of several current Renewal and Revival movements. Controversial for its connections to Word/Faith teachers, the so-called “Kansas City Prophets,” its adherence to various Latter Rain doctrines, and its unbiblical practices. Note: Not all renewal/revival movements, and not all churches in renewal or revival adhere to all or any of these teachings

4 Growing in the Prophetic, pages 29-31, by Mike Bickle, Strang Communications, 1996


6 The Road to the holocaust, by Hal Lindsey, Bantam Books

TOPICS: Apologetics; Charismatic Christian; Prayer; Theology
KEYWORDS: davidcloud; ihop; kansascityprophets; lakeland; nar; rickjoyner
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1 posted on 05/26/2010 12:45:14 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood
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To: TwoLegsGood
Many of the charismatic prophets today admit that they are wrong at least part of the time, but they claim that a New Testament prophet does not have to be correct in all of his prophecies.

Bzzzzzzt! Wrong, but thanks for playing our game.

I visited IHOP with a friend of mine who was just dying to go there. I enjoyed the worship center with the music, but when I went into the bookstore, it was filled with Mike Bickle stuff. I got creeped out.

Obviously, the Holy Spirit was giving me some discernment there.

2 posted on 05/26/2010 1:03:00 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: TwoLegsGood


3 posted on 05/26/2010 1:12:07 PM PDT by woweeitsme
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To: TwoLegsGood

Great article. Being a prophet pays a lot better these days than it did in the past (eating locusts? beheading? getting swallowed by a whale?)...

4 posted on 05/26/2010 1:19:36 PM PDT by Yet_Again
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To: TwoLegsGood

Just curious...was the IHOP’s tagline “Come Hungry. Leave Holy.”?

5 posted on 05/26/2010 1:22:05 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: TwoLegsGood

When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him (Deuteronomy 18:22).

And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown (Jonah 3:4).

So Jonah was a false prophet. Yet in the Bible...

6 posted on 05/26/2010 1:45:25 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes; TwoLegsGood

“So Jonah was a false prophet. Yet in the Bible...”

No, Jonah spoke just the words the Lord gave him, however the Lord did not give him the whole message. That is what a prophet does, speaks just the words the Lord gives.

“Leave at once for the important city, Nineveh. Announce to the people that I can no longer overlook the wicked things they have done.”

“Leave at once for the important city, Nineveh. Announce to the people the message I have given you.”

7 posted on 05/26/2010 2:13:25 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

I don’t think I am following you.

God told him to announce the message, but the message wan’t ‘40 days hence’?

Or Jonah said what God told him, but God’s plan were actually 40 years, not 40 days?

8 posted on 05/26/2010 2:33:26 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: TwoLegsGood


9 posted on 05/26/2010 2:34:49 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

Jonah only had the message God gave him. It did not include the fact that if Ninevah repented God would be merciful.

What Ninevah did after the display of God’s mercy to incur God’s wrath was not Jonah’s business and not part of his prophetic charge. He was to be faithful to as much light as God gave him at the time and that was to proclaim God’s judgment just as he was told. How it ultimately worked out was God’s business.

10 posted on 05/26/2010 2:46:55 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: TwoLegsGood
Kansas City Prophets ping!

11 posted on 05/26/2010 2:55:03 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Pretentiousness is so beneath me.)
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To: blue-duncan


Jonah ‘made a prophecy’. Jonah’s prophecy didn’t come true. According to the article above (and Deut), Jonah is a false prophet.

All I was trying to point out is that it isn’t all that cut/dried. Did I make that point? I still believe that Jonah ‘heard from God’ and was a ‘true prophet’, even though the article outlines how he couldn’t be...

12 posted on 05/26/2010 2:59:20 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

“Jonah’s prophecy didn’t come true.”

It wasn’t Jonah’s prophecy. It was God’s word to Ninevah; God just didn’t let Jonah in on the repentance condition. The reason for that could be seen in Jonah’s reaction when Ninevah did repent. He was entrusted with as much of God’s plan as God thought he was capable of faithfully carrying out; and even then, Jonah almost failed.

13 posted on 05/26/2010 3:06:12 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

Are you Jonah’s press secretary?

14 posted on 05/26/2010 3:22:31 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Funny... love them pancakes... hate them antiChrists.

15 posted on 05/26/2010 3:31:34 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood (" sin is ever before me" - King David)
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To: blue-duncan

Hmmm... I think the entire IHOP/NAR movement counts upon your interpretation of Jonah...

so I have to be a Berean about it...

God would never give a prophetic word without giving the conditions of that word at the time of the prophecy.

Otherwise, God would be a trickster.

IF my people will humble themselves...

THEN I will heal their land etc..

I don’t know enough about the Jonah word to discuss it but the condition of repentance had to be implied somewhere, somehow. Ninevah’s king immediately repents after hearing the word.

These lying prophets of the NAR always give prophecies that don’t come true — Bob Jones has predicted California falling into the ocean in the 1990’s — but when it didn’t happen, he used the ‘Oh the people repented” excuse.
This is lame and satanic, not the goodness of God.

16 posted on 05/26/2010 3:37:27 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood (" sin is ever before me" - King David)
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To: RichInOC

IHOP : “Come hungry, leave damned.”

17 posted on 05/26/2010 3:39:10 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood (" sin is ever before me" - King David)
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To: MEGoody

Stay creeped on this stuff, GBU

18 posted on 05/26/2010 5:39:30 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood (" sin is ever before me" - King David)
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To: TwoLegsGood

“God would never give a prophetic word without giving the conditions of that word at the time of the prophecy.”

That’s not entirely correct.

1 Pet. 1:10-12, “Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.”

1 Cor. 13:12, “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

19 posted on 05/26/2010 5:43:37 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan
The glass darkly stuff I understand, but I don't understand the 1 Peter citation?

As it applies to a condition on a prophetic word being given or not being given at all?

Would like be signing a contract without knowing all the codicils?

20 posted on 05/26/2010 6:30:03 PM PDT by TwoLegsGood (" sin is ever before me" - King David)
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