Hoping and Praying for Gog and Magog to Attack

American Vision ^ | June 7, 2010 | Gary DeMar

[Captain Beyond]

bflr

[Quix]

. In your mind, the end justifies the means; you clearly think you are right and everyone else wrong,

= = =

OH, REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYY?

Have the REPLACEMENTARIAN et al rabid cliques undergone

mind reading traning from some race of ET’s?

[Quix]

LOL.

I was just tweaking the REPLACEMENTARIANS.

You asked for ideas.

I’m still trying to get through all my pings and threads I care to bother about and didn’t want to respond to your query for ideas but I did want to tweak the REPLACEMENTARIANS for their idiotic constructions on Scripture and GOD ALMIGHTY’S TRUSTWORTHINESS.

Preterists et al believe to varying degrees that THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST HAS REPLACED THE BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB IN TERMS OF ALL GOD’S PROMISES.

They have to trash a lot of scriptures to hold such crazy notions—yet they do.

So, I accused them of not dealing in ideas that you’d asked for—instead, that they kind of just went into the font factory and scraped up the dropped words and letters and pretended the resulting little piles of collected stray words and letters were reasonable theology on the issues about Biblical prophecies related to blood Israel.

Sorry for the bother.

[Cvengr]

Pink is not sound.

[Quix]

OF COURSE YOU ARE RIGHT.

THERE’S NO WAY

70AD

WORKS WITH SUCH PROPHECIES.

[Quix]

THX

[kevao]

I believe there are only two eras of time -- before Jesus Christ and after Jesus Christ.

If events like the Millenium, the Great White Throne Judgment or the creation of a New Heaven/New Earth do not mark different eras in time, I guess you could just as easily argue for two eras of time (different from yours): before Creation and after Creation -- B.C./A.C. :)

[kevao]

Preterists et al believe to varying degrees that THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST HAS REPLACED THE BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB IN TERMS OF ALL GOD’S PROMISES.

Well, according to you I must be somewhat of a "preterist": I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ has been "grafted into" the "vine" of the blood descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in terms of all of God's promises.

But, as far as I know, a "preterist" is someone who believes all of the "end-time" events of Daniel/Ezekiel/Revelation already took place in 70 A.D. And, in that sense I am no preterist, as indicated in my Post #37. Specifically, the text of Ezekiel 38 presents a chronology problem I could not explain away if I were to argue the "preterist" contention.

Sorry for the bother.

No bother, Quix. I appreciate the reply!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Read John 8...

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." -- John 8:31-47

I don't know what God's plan is for unbelieving Jews. I pray He will be merciful to their unbelief and bring them to faith in Christ. Their disbelief led to my salvation and the salvation of all gentiles.

I like the explanation found...HERE.

[Quix]

Well, according to you I must be somewhat of a “preterist”: I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ has been “grafted into” the “vine” of the blood descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in terms of all of God’s promises.

= = =

NO. I believe that, too.

REPLACEMENTARIANS believe that God is

NOT ANY LONGER FULFILLING ANY OF HIS PROMISES TO ABRAHAM

TO THE BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM—ONLY TO CHRISTIANS.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I suppose you could say that. Why not?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Pink is brilliant. Read that link and tell me what you think.

[kevao]

I don't know what God's plan is for unbelieving Jews.

Interesting article. Many thanks!

I don't understand your confusion about God's plan for unbelieving Jews. They will, of course, share the same fate as unbelieving Gentiles:

Clearly, God is not "done with Israel", for out of the Great Tribulation will be saved a remnant of 144,000 Jews. This is stated clearly in Revelation. It follows that the rest of the Jews will reject Christ, and therefore share the same fate as unbelieving Gentiles.

What puzzles me is your confusion regarding this issue. I've seen many of your posts throughout the years. Without question, you are someone who has studied the scriptures extensively and are an ardent Calvinist. Why would you, of all people, expect God -- Who is no respecter of persons -- to treat an unbelieving Jew any differently than an unbelieving Gentile?

[roamer_1]

I guess I just must hang out with just the fringe element, as I have never met any of these others.

Huh. Me neither. :P

I don't "pray" for the fulfilment of Gods prophecy. I watch for it. I don't look forward to a horrible war or 7 years of tribulation. I look forward to seeing with my own eyes Gods fulfilment of his promises, and of his return.

I could not possibly agree more! Folks think it is eagerly awaited - well, yes, in a way it is... Our Redeemer draws nigh!

But it is also sobering - With fear, and trembling... The events which are right around the corner are terrible and grim.

Even if one supposes the rapture comes first before any of it, it is horrifying to see so many souls heading for the most important days of destiny, without the barest clue of what they will soon encounter.

The war of Magog will certainly come - Is this the time? Probably. But no one leaps for joy at the thought of any war - especially one of this magnitude.

[...] Prophecy was given to us as a warning sign, or in this case a mile marker. We are approching the end of the expressway, Gods telling us how much more to go until then.

AMEN!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Regarding the Jews, read John 8.

Regarding the Tribulation, I don't believe the term is Scriptural in a future context. Each Christian will suffer for Christ's sake in order to better know the worth of His sacrifice.

Regarding the end times, I believe we are in them. Jesus Christ began His earthly kingdom during his earthly ministry. He is already reigning as king over the kingdom of God/heaven. This current reign is the millennial time frame in Rev. 20, and covers the time between his first and second appearings -- the "end days."

TRIBULATION AND THE ANTICHRIST

I don't believe eschatology is a salvation matter. None of us really knows. But I find more strength and sense of purpose in believing Christ reigns today over the earth as well as heaven. I think this is the message of the Gospel --

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Flattery works, doesn't it? 8~)

I'm the first to admit I don't understand all the extra-Biblical blueprints laid over the Scriptures by dispensationalists.

I think Revelation was written to the seven churches as an exhortation to stay the course, and not as a future time-line of exact events. It's the most allegorical, poetic of the Scriptures, and I don't take a lot of it literally.

I think it's unwise to spend a lot of time on "prophecy." A considerable amount of the bible is not literal. Christ is not "a door." We do not "eat His flesh." And I don't believe 2/3 of the Jews must die to fulfill Biblical prophecy of some supposed slaughter in a coming tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9) which dispensationalists accept as a future event.

Life is short and I don't plan on spending a lot more time reading about dispensationalism because what I know of it does not seem to be taught in the Bible. I think the evidence points to dispensationalism being an expedient rationalization for a political agenda.

You I like your tie. 8~)

[kevao]

Regarding the Tribulation, I don't believe the term is Scriptural in a future context. Each Christian will suffer for Christ's sake in order to better know the worth of His sacrifice.

Yes, Jesus taught that all believers would suffer trials and tribulations for His sake. But then also, in Matthew 24:21, He spoke:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This is clearly a *very* specific period of unprecedented world tribulation. As Jesus was speaking in future tense, we know this period would follow His time on earth. The only question is, has this period occurred already, or is it still yet to come?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I’m comfortable believing this period of terrible Tribulation occurred with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

[kevao]

Well, I don't know exactly what a dispensationalist is. I've learned tonight that I am most likely not a preterist, although my understanding of that term is not much better than that of dispensationalist....

I don't argue that much of biblical prophecy is allegorical. And I have yet to read anything convincing about who exactly the seven churches of Revelation are. But the fact that some 30% of the Bible pertains to prophecy suggests to me that it is not something for us to dismiss as a waste of time.

To the contrary, Jesus Himself gave us the "signs of the times", and for a reason -- He wanted us to know when the time was at hand!

Luke 21:31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

And, after giving us these signs, He *commanded* us to pay heed!

Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

So while we may have to wade through much allegory and poetic scripture regarding prophecy, Jesus clearly commanded us to pay attention to world events so that we would know, because of His foretelling of the signs we should watch for, when the time of His return was approaching.

[kevao]

I’m comfortable believing this period of terrible Tribulation occurred with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

70 A.D. as the "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be"?

No offense, but I think that, in context, 70 A.D. was objectively far less tumultuous than, for example, World War I, the Great Depression, or World War II.

Think about it. Did *this* really occur in 70 A.D.?:

Ezekiel 38:18 This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD. 19 In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence.

If so, I didn't hear about it. In fact, other than some Jewish scholars and Christians who know their Old Testament, *nobody* has ever even heard about what happened in 70 A.D., much less than "trembled" at what happened in 70 A.D.