Hoping and Praying for Gog and Magog to Attack

American Vision ^ | June 7, 2010 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

I knew it would happen. The latest incident in Israel has brought out the prophetic speculators again. “A council of rabbis in Israel says their nation’s conflict with Turkey over a flotilla of ‘aid’ ships headed for the blockaded Gaza Strip controlled by the terrorist Hamas organization just may be the beginning of the ‘Gog and Magog process where the world is against us, but which ends with the third and final redemption’” (see here ). Picking up on the story, Christian prophecy speculator Joel Rosenberg takes a similar position but with some caution:

There is growing interest in the Ezekiel prophecies and whether they could play out in our lifetime. I believe it is still too early to say anything definitively. But I agree that current events are strikingly consistent with the prophecies and I believe it is possible that we could see these events unfold soon. The mention of “Gomer” in Ezekiel, for example, refers to the modern-day State of Turkey which will be an enemy of Israel and part of a Russian-Iranian alliance against the Jewish state. I’m not saying the prophecy will necessarily come to pass soon, but I can’t rule out that possibility. We’ve never seen a convergence of geopolitical and spiritual events so consistent with Ezekiel 38–39 in history like we are seeing today (see here ).

One of the arguments used to futurize Ezekiel’s prophecy 2600 years from the time it was written is the claim that the Hebrew word rosh in Ezekiel 38:2–3 and 39:1 sounds like Russia. So then why doesn’t “Gomer” sound like some modern-day nation? Why Turkey? If God wanted to identify Turkey 2600 years ago, then why didn’t He use some sound-alike word that would identify modern Turkey? The same is true of the other nations listed in Ezekiel.

There is no need to speculate beyond the historical boundaries of Ezekiel’s day to force the names of these ancient nations to find a place on a modern-day map and conform to today’s geo-political landscape. Iain Duguid’s comments are helpful in accounting for the historical realities of Ezekiel’s prophecy:

[Gog] is the commander-in-chief ([ chief prince]) of a coalition of forces gathered from the ends of the earth. He himself is from the land of Magog, and he rules over Meshech-Tubal. His allies include Persia, Cush, and Put (38:5), along with Gomer and Beth Togarmah (38:6). It is no coincidence that together these make up a total of seven nations, and it is significant that they are gathered from the uttermost parts of the known world to the prophet. Meshech-Tubal, Gomer, and Beth Togarmah come from the North, Put (Northwest Egypt) and Cush (southern Egypt) from the south and west, while Persia is to the east of Judah.[1]

Ezekiel was given a revelation that was describing his world. You don’t have to be a biblical scholar to figure this out. The people making up these nations were alive and well and living in proximity to Israel in Ezekiel’s day. There is no question about this claim. There is no way to refute it. To maintain that the nations that attack Israel are nations in our day is not allowing the Bible to speak for itself. “To seek the fulfillment in the dark region of the end of the days,” Ernest Hengstenberg (1802–1868) writes, “is the less possible, because most of the nations named either no longer exist, or are no longer heathen. Magog, Gomer, Meshech and Tubal, Phut, Sheba, and Dedan, are no more to be found”[2] on any modern map.

If the battle described in Ezekiel 38–39 does not refer to modern-day nations that will attack Israel, then when and where in biblical history did this conflict take place? Instead of looking to the distant future or finding fulfillment in a historical setting outside the Bible where we are dependent on unreliable secular sources, James B. Jordan believes that “it is in [the book of] Esther that we see a conspiracy to plunder the Jews, which backfires with the result that the Jews plundered their enemies. This event is then ceremonially sealed with the institution of the annual Feast of Purim.”[3] Jordan continues by establishing the context for Ezekiel 38 and 39:

Ezekiel describes the attack of Gog, Prince of Magog, and his confederates. Ezekiel states that people from all over the world attack God’s people, who are pictured dwelling at peace in the land. God’s people will completely defeat them, however, and the spoils will be immense. The result is that all nations will see the victory, and “the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day onward” (Ezek. 39:21–23). . . . Chronologically this all fits very nicely. The events of Esther took place during the reign of Darius, after the initial rebuilding of the Temple under Joshua [the High Priest] and Zerubbabel and shortly before rebuilding of the walls by Nehemiah. . . . Thus, the interpretive hypothesis I am suggesting (until someone shoots it down) is this: Ezekiel 34–37 describes the first return of the exiles under Zerubbabel, and implies the initial rebuilding of the physical Temple. Ezekiel 38–39 describes the attack of Gog (Haman) and his confederates against the Jews. Finally, Ezekiel 40–48 describes in figurative language the situation as a result of the work of Nehemiah.[4]

Ezekiel 38:5–6 tells us that Israel’s enemies come from “Persia, Cush, and . . . from the remote parts of the north. . . ,” all within the boundaries of the Persian Empire of Esther’s day. From Esther we learn that the Persian Empire “extended from India to Cush, 127 provinces. . .” in all (Esther 8:9). Ethiopia (Cush) and Persia are listed in Esther 1:1 and 3 and are also found in Ezekiel 38:5. The other nations were in the geographical boundaries “from India to Ethiopia” in the “127 provinces” over which Ahasueras ruled (Esther 1:1). “In other words, the explicit idea that the Jews were attacked by people from all the provinces of Persia is in both passages,”[5] and the nations listed by Ezekiel were part of the Persian empire of his day. The parallels are unmistakable (There are many more parallels that can be found in my book Why the End of the World is Not in Your Future .) Even Ezekiel’s statement that the fulfillment of the prophecy takes place in a time when there are “unwalled villages” (Ezek. 38:11) is not an indication of a distant future fulfillment as Grant Jeffrey attempts to argue:

It is interesting to note that during the lifetime of Ezekiel and up until 1900, virtually all of the villages and cities in the Middle East had walls for defense. Ezekiel had never seen a village or city without defensive walls. Yet, in our day, Israel is a “land of unwalled villages” for the simple reason that modern techniques of warfare (bombs and missiles) make city walls irrelevant for defense. This is one more indication that his prophecy refers to our modern generation.

* * * * *

Ezekiel’s reference to “dwell safely” and “without walls . . . neither bars nor gates” refers precisely to Israel’s current military situation, where she is dwelling safely because of her strong armed defense and where her cities and villages have no walls or defensive bars. The prophet had never seen a city without walls, so he was astonished when he saw, in a vision, Israel dwelling in the future without walls. Ezekiel lived in a time when every city in the world used huge walls for military defense.[6]

In Esther we learn that there were Jews who were living peacefully in “unwalled towns” (KJV) (9:19) when Haman conspired against them. Israel’s antagonists in Ezekiel are said to “go up against the land of unwalled villages” (Ezek. 38:11). The Hebrew word perazah is used in Esther 9:19 and Ezekiel 38:11. This fits the conditions of Esther’s day. Jeffrey is mistaken in his assertion that “Ezekiel had never seen a village or city without defensive walls.” They seemed to be quite common outside the main cities. Moreover, his contention that Israel is currently “dwelling safely because of her strong armed defense” is patently untrue. Since 2006, the Israeli government has built more than 435 miles of walls in Israel.

There are many more parallels between Ezekiel 38–39 and Esther, Ezra, and Nehemiah. I had one emailer argue with me over the above summary interpretation. He fed me all the standard end-time arguments that are popular with interpretations of Ezekiel 38–39. When I told him to purchase my book Why the End of the World is Not in Your Future and offer a detailed response, he wrote the following: “I’m not buying prophecy books just now, but I will accept a complimentary copy for review.” This is a person who is not serious about Bible study. He’s afraid of what he will find. He wanted to know if I belonged to the “Allegorism school of interpretation” that dismisses a literal interpretation. As I show in my book, I am very literal. I don’t turn horses into “horsepower, bows and arrows into “launching pads” and “missiles,” or chariots into tanks. When the text says “to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods” (Ezek. 38:13), it means silver, gold, cattle, and goods (Ezra 1:4) and not natural gas, potash, or oil.

He and many others like him have adopted a system of interpretation that locks him into a theology of irrelevance. Here is his final comment to me: “Things are winding up very rapidly these days.” Yes they are. We are witnessing the end of humanism. Either get on board to make it happen through the preaching of the gospel, applying the Bible to every area of life, and building an alternative society when the inevitable collapse comes or get out of the way. There won’t be a “rapture” to rescue you. Deal with it.

Endnotes:

1. Iain M. Duguid, Ezekiel: The NIV Application Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1999), 448.
2. E. W. Hengstenberg, The Prophecies of the Prophet Ezekiel Elucidated, trans. A. C. Murphy and J. G. Murphy (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1869), 331.
3. James B. Jordan, Esther in the Midst of Covenant History (Niceville, FL: Biblical Horizons, 1995), 5.
4. Jordan, Esther in the Midst of Covenant History, 7.
5. Jordan, Esther in the Midst of Covenant History, 7.
6. Grant R. Jeffrey, The Next World War: What Prophecy Reveals About Extreme Islam and the West (Colorado Springs, CO: WaterBrook Press, 2006), 143, 147–148.

Gary is a graduate of Western Michigan University (1973) and earned his M.Div. at Reformed Theological Seminary in 1979. In 2007, he earned his Ph.D. in Christian Intellectual History from Whitefield Theological Seminary. Author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 27 book titles, he also hosts The Gary DeMar Show, and History Unwrapped—both broadcasted and podcasted. Gary has lived in the Atlanta area since 1979 with his wife, Carol. They have two married sons and are enjoying being grandparents to their grandson. Gary and Carol are members of Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA).

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Permission to reprint granted by American Vision, P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.

[LibertyRocks]

Thank you much for the ping, and the post. It contains some fascinating information that should be pondered. Marking it for when I have more time to read it through. :)

Oh, and for what it’s worth, I enjoy your long posts, too. I see someone complained, but it’s not like it would take that long to scroll down if one chose to ignore it! :)

[LibertyRocks]

That is really neat. Thanks for posting it. :)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If there were 2 billion Christians of the same character as the first 12, there would be nothing else in the world but Christians.

The "quality" of Christians is not the point. Since it is God alone who numbers His flock the size of that flock is in His hands.

But the trend is certainly positive. From 12 to two billion. Out of two billion Christians, there are undoubtedly men and women who are faithful to Christ alone.

And that number most certainly is more than 12.

I just don't get the attitude of those who cavalierly dismiss two billion Christians as insufficient evidence for the success of the Gospel. Peripherally and no doubt unknowingly, they are doing the work of the enemy by admitting defeat.

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." -- Isaiah 55:11

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"Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you" -- 2 Thess. 3:1

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"So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed." -- Acts 19:20

Where in Scripture does it say the word of God does not "prevail" but instead fails?

From a geopolitical standpoint, and from a sense of obligation for the genocide of the Jews in WWII, Israel must be protected and defended. But as far as Scripture goes, dirt and rocks and vain genealogies mean nothing to God. "Neither Jew nor Greek; all one in Christ Jesus." -- Galatians 3:28

[Dr. Eckleburg]

So much for a glorious victorious king returning and defeating Satan

Christ defeated Satan on the cross at Calgary. The rest is clean-up.

How have Christians gotten to the point where they deny this merciful fact?

All history led up to the cross and all future leads from the cross.

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." -- Hebews 2:14-15

[T Minus Four]

ping

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Hi, Fru! I’m always so happy to read your posts. How are you and yours?

[dartuser]

But as far as Scripture goes, dirt and rocks and vain genealogies mean nothing to God.

Unless, of course, those dirt and rocks and "vain" genealogies are an integral part of the promises made to the nation of Israel that God has yet to fulfill.

[Cvengr]

ping

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Nope. The dirt and rocks and vain genealogies mean nothing now that the Savior has appeared.

Dirt and rocks and vain genealogies are not any "integral part" of the salvation that Christ has won.

There are believing Jews and believing Gentiles. They are all one in Christ Jesus.

The rest is politics. Much of it is good politics. But it has no basis in Scripture.

The victory has been won. We're now experiencing its gracious aftermath.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Unless, of course, those dirt and rocks and "vain" genealogies are an integral part of the promises made to the nation of Israel that God has yet to fulfill.

What was that promise to Israel?

The promise was that a Savior would come and give eternal life by grace through faith in that Savior to all who love His appearing.

And so He has.

[mountn man]

My point was Revelation where Christ returns on a white horse, robes dipped in blood, King of Kings and Lord of Lord, that whole thing. That is the final victory.

That is where prophecy leads us, not to some, we all live happily ever after on this Earth having kids and raising families til Jesus comes and we sing Kumbaya.

The Bible is a war manual. We are at war with Satan, in our own lives as well as this world. That war will not be over till Christ returns.

Ezekiel, Daniel Revelation and others tell us what to look for when that might be. It uses terms like "don't be afraid" for a reason. There's some scary stuff coming up, and the Bible tells us to put on our battle armor.

None of the Apostles looked for rosy lives here and now. They were ready for battle. And so should we, as we see the day approaching.

Preparing for battle isn't defeatest, its anything but. Denying the coming battle is, it'll get your a$$ kicked.

[mountn man]

Christ defeated Satan on the cross at Calgary. The rest is clean-up.

Christ died in Canada??? ;)

[Cvengr]

There won’t be a “rapture” to rescue you. Deal with it.

Such a statement manifests volumes of lack of faith. In order to presume a rapture rescues a believer from worldly tribulation, it presumes the world is our destination.

Mandating one to 'deal with it', expresses more envy and malevolent intent to a fellow believer who doesn't ascribe to a particular way of thinking as the author, who seeks vengeance by his own understanding, rather remaining in fellowship with God and recognizing God has different agendas for different believers in His Plan.

There might be some finer truths discussed in the presentation, but the author, IMHO, generally writes from a perspective out of fellowship with God, rather than within His hand.

[Cvengr]

Of course, if the 2nd coming came in 70 AD, there would be no more need for teaching. But since those with such an eschatology teach, what do they really believe? They aren’t that foolish, but arrogance does account for much.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Nuts. I've done that twice in nine years on FR. You'd think my mistake could go unnoticed at least once.

But noooo.

Calvary. Calvary. Calvary. (I have relatives in Calgary - my only defense.)

Calvary. Calvary. Calvary...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

That is where prophecy leads us, not to some, we all live happily ever after on this Earth having kids and raising families til Jesus comes and we sing Kumbaya.

Why not? That's where He's led me and millions of Christians.

The Bible is a war manual. We are at war with Satan, in our own lives as well as this world. That war will not be over till Christ returns.

The war is spiritual. Satan beguiles every Christian but we have Christ's promise that He has given us the indwelling Holy Spirit who will fight our battles for us and with us and who will never leave us defenseless.

There's some scary stuff coming up, and the Bible tells us to put on our battle armor.

There's plenty of "scary stuff" right here in front of our faces. Stuff many of us are oblivious to.

So no one is "denying the battle." The battle is the same as ever -- "evil in high places."

But with our "battle armor" in place, which is the "sword of the Spirit" -- God's holy word -- Christians should have no fear. Christ has overcome the world. It is His. Now. Yesterday. Today. Tomorrow. All of it. Now.

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him;

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Colossians 1:12-17

"All things."

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Now, mountn man, all you have to do is throw half the Bible in the garbage and you, too, can feel better knowing that none of those Daniel and Revelation nasty thingies are actually going to really happen.

We can all discard what God told us and live in a world of cotton candy and butterflies if we just try hard enough.

[mountn man]

That is where prophecy leads us, not to some, we all live happily ever after on this Earth having kids and raising families til Jesus comes and we sing Kumbaya.

Why not? That's where He's led me and millions of Christians. .

He did not lead you here to just be fat and happy. We are here to make war with Satan.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the Gospel of peace;

16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,

20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

My king is a warrior king, should I be any less a warrior???

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Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.

15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,

18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."

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Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.

15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.

16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

[mountn man]

Thanks G

[Paved Paradise]

I glanced at that link and it was meaningless. All I know is the Scripture clearly states that some “will not sleep,” but will go directly to the Lord. That tells me that for some there will be some kind of occurrence and the only thing that explains that is a Rapture. Now, can you tell me your explanation if you think the Rapture is a false teaching?