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To: fortheDeclaration
James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Maybe you should read it again.

By the way, faith is a work. Belief is a work.

You are making the assumption that as soon as you admit even one "work" as necessary to salvation you are preaching that our works are the power that saves us. You are running from a straw man of your own construction.

The supernatural work of salvation that is the power that saves us was done on the cross by Jesus. When Paul says that salvation is not work works, this is what he is talking about. He was battling Judaizing teachers who were trying to put Christians on the same treadmill that did not even work under the old law. (The Pharisee who felt justified in his "righteousness" verses the tax collector was was justified because of his repentent heart.)

Maybe you should read Ephesians 2:10 -- God intended for us to do good works in His kingdom from the begining.

132 posted on 06/28/2010 8:28:10 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: hopespringseternal
James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Maybe you should read it again.

And maybe you should read a dictionary and learn that the word justification has more than one meaning. The justificaiton spoken of in James is speaking of the legal sense,'a showing to be just or conformable to law' In the theological sense (Paul) it is the 'act of free grace by which God pardons a sinner and accepts him as righteous' (Webster 1828)

Now, what does the NAS, a RCC bible have to say about James 2. vs Paul.

'...Paul argues against those who claim to particpate in God's salvation because of their good deeds as well as because they have committed themselves to trust in God through Jesus Christ (Paul's concept of faith). The author of James is well aware that proper conduct can only come about with an authentic commitment to God in faith. (NAS fn).

By the way, faith is a work. Belief is a work.

Faith is not a work.

'But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifeth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness (Rom.4:5)

You are making the assumption that as soon as you admit even one "work" as necessary to salvation you are preaching that our works are the power that saves us. You are running from a straw man of your own construction.

I am asking you what is the basis for your salvation.

You say that works are part of it.

If works have no power to save you, than they have nothing to do with your salvation.

It is your logic that is flawed.

You are denying the law of excluded middle, either works are needed for salvation or they aren't.

Which is it?

The supernatural work of salvation that is the power that saves us was done on the cross by Jesus. When Paul says that salvation is not work works, this is what he is talking about. He was battling Judaizing teachers who were trying to put Christians on the same treadmill that did not even work under the old law. (The Pharisee who felt justified in his "righteousness" verses the tax collector was was justified because of his repentent heart.)

So, works aren't necessary to salvation?

And the FN to the RCC NAS doesn't say that Paul was only speaking of the Jewish law, he states that Paul was speaking of good deeds.

Maybe you should read Ephesians 2:10 -- God intended for us to do good works in His kingdom from the begining.

Yes, those good works are a RESULT of being already saved, which is made clear in Eph.2:9, NOT OF WORKS.

So, are works are necessary for one's salvation or do the works SHOW that one is saved?

That is what Eph.2:10 is speaking about, a saved man, who performs good works because God is working through him.

None of those works contribute to that individual's salvation, they are a RESULT of it.

Regarding the Luke 18, it is you 'faith plus works' individuals who are the Pharisee's, standing around thinking you deserve heaven for what YOU are doing, instead of what Christ DID for you.

134 posted on 06/29/2010 6:11:34 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: hopespringseternal

Salvation by faith does not mean that there is no human response taking place in being justified before God, but that man’s response does not merit one eternal life. God grants repentance, (Acts 11:8) and persuades the drowning sinner to lay hold of Christ, choosing light over darkness, and thus righteousness is imputed to that believers, because it is Jesus Christ the righteous who saves them by His blood, not because their works merit it.

Souls are not accounted to have truly merited eternal life because of their works done in God, contrary to what Trent claims, yet the faith that saves is one that is of a confessional quality, so that while death bed conversions can occur, such a soul would respond to Christ by being baptized, and following his Lord if he lived.

(Rom 10:9-10) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. {10} For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

In Acts 10, Cornelius and household were born again before anyone baptized him, and his confession was magnifying God.

It is the nature of man to presume their works and or the power of their church will save, and many churches promote this, partly by honoring anti-Christ souls like Ted Kennedy as believers, but salvation by Biblical faith debases man and exalts God, and the Biblical evangelists did not simply work to clarify that salvation is by grace, but by the Holy Ghost convicted man of his utterly destitute and damnable condition, and need for salvation by faith in the Lord Jesus and His blood, and it is in the light of God’s justice that man sees that need.

And as said before, the distinction between what actually saves is


137 posted on 06/29/2010 7:17:11 AM PDT by daniel1212 ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out " (Acts 3:19))
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