Ecumenism with Protestantism will not work. Protestantism is a heresy.Posted on 07/02/2010 8:01:28 AM PDT by mlizzy
Ecumenism with Protestantism will not work. Protestantism is a heresy.
This idea is very harmful and false.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that salvation can be found, outside of the Catholic faith!
Replace “Protestant” with “Catholic” and you get the attitude of many Protestants (and Orthodox). Wonderful.
This is real productive; let’s go back to the 16th and 17th century.
Mark 9:38 John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us." 39 But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40 "For he who is not against us is for us.
My Protestant brethren have a different perspective born of a separate tradition... but they are not the enemy. No one who professes the name of Christ should be an enemy to another.
I'd have shown Michael Voris the door, too. BTW, does the Vortex' opening sequence remind anyone else of a toilet flushing?
Careful here.
If a non-Catholic is saved--and it does happen--it is only through, by, and in the Catholic Church that happens. They are joined to the Church in fact, even though they might not be joined in name.
The Catechism is carefully worded here...and we must never ever interpret it to the degree we lose sight of the well-established doctrine "Outside the Church there is no salvation."
I don’t think Mr. Voris picked the right person to have a debate with. There are plenty of other Protestants much more knowledgeable than the poor Lutheran who was the brunt of this production.
What he says is doctrinally correct. However, there’s an imperiousness to it that I do not like at all. I think you all deserve better than this.
"A valid celebration of the Eucharist can't be had, unless the receiving party has pledged submission and obedience to the Pope's authority over all believers, and the celebrant has valid orders from said Pope. Thus, the short-term goal behind any Catholic ecumenical effort is creating subservience to the Pope."
-- Alex Murphy, July 21 2008, on the thread Remember the ultimate goal of ecumenism: Pope
*save*
What I find disturbing about this video is that it is definitely one sided. The video only shows one person making statements about what another person said. How could we possibly know that he is accurately repeating the conversation? For all I know, this gentleman is being used or influenced unknowingly by ungodly spirits to stir up CRAP!
I have had many similar conversations among folks of different faiths and inevitably, someone twists and spins what was actually said and distorts the actual reality of the conversation. We all should know that the devil is a liar who seeks to kill, steal and destroy. Looks like he has a good foothold here.
OK, I will bite. Yes, there is salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church. There is no place in the Bible that says we are saved through the RCC. Salvation is through Jesus only. Acts 4:10-12 Peter said, “...let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this [helpless] man stands here before you whole. This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
We become members of the catholic (universal) church when we are born again by the Spirit of God.
Let’s phrase it another way....because I think you are getting tangled up in meanings I do not intend.
Forget Catholicism as an organized entity for a moment. In fact, forget all churches and denominations and just consider the catholic (universal) church that you mentioned.
Is there any salvation outside that universal church? Can a person be saved who is not a part of that body in some way?
I just said that we become members of that catholic (universal) church when we are born again by the Spirit of God. What more do you want me to say? The Bible is all I stand on.
Voris is passionate and he means well and he is informed and does good work, but (you knew there had to be one) there’s something in his manner and presentation that can easily rub people wrong. He also was, to an extent, seduced into having a discussion with someone who wasn’t interested in discussion or debate but in competitively scoring points leading to a “win” sort of thing. Yeah, we all need to avoid that.
Of course! But it is totally impossible that someone be saved by Jesus and *not* through the ekklesia, the assembly, the Church. Could you imagine that? I'm sitting here all by myself, I get saved by Jesus all alone and wind up in heaven all alone?
That'd be nonsense. Jesus saves through the Church, not in spite of it, as some seem to think.
Paul was saved by Jesus Christ, outside the 'assembly, the Church'. It is possible.
It is most decidedly *not* possible. Being saved isn't getting knocked off the horse or having a flash moment. It's you going through a long process of interior and exterior conversion and ending up in heaven. From the Latin salvare...to make well, to heal: i.e. the "state or process of being made well, healed".
Ecumenism with Protestantism will not work. Protestantism is a heresy.Ecumenical! Play nice, y-all.
Whatever. I can't see much good coming out of this thread. About as useful and productive as arguing with your typical FR dispensationalist.
..and yet Jesus Christ did not instruct Paul to go to Peter and the 11, who were doing the commands of the Church in order to be saved. Why wouldn’t He tell Paul that he would find his message of salvation in Jerusalem, with Peter, and the church?
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