On intemperate and indiscreet zeal. (The Primary Fault of many Religion Forum posters)

Various | Various | Various

[presently no screen name]

Not to appear too zealous but I was addressing the thought that the poster was addressing. My thought for his thought, his thought for my thought. ;)

That being said you know the rules better than I.

[r9etb]

No one should be offended at HIS Word, THE TRUTH.

Ah, yes ... but we have the unfortunate tendency to forget that we are merely messengers, and not the Message itself.

And where God's truth is concerned the messengers can be, and very often are, quite offensive. To the point where our bad behavior blinds people to "THE TRUTH" we purport to be telling them.

As St. Francis put it, "Preach the Gospel always; when necessary, use words." How we behave, matters.

[svcw]

My foster father always said that a “religious zealot is anyone who believes in God more than I do”.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Actually, during my several years of exile from FR, I came to the conclusion that intemperate and indiscreet zeal was my own primary fault in the past on FR, and I set out to find references in the writings of Christian spiritual masters on the subject. So yes, I'm guilty of the same, in spades. I thought my own consciousness of this fault on my part might therefore help others struggling with the same fault.

I've been collecting these excerpts for several years, and a recent thread, Prayers for The Religion Forum (Ecumenical), was the catalyst for posting this thread.

[ArrogantBustard]

In my more than two decades of hanging out on the internet in various forms, I have observed repeatedly that attempting to read "the other guy's" mind, and presuming to know his beliefs, his thought patterns, his practices better than he knows them, serves no good purpose.

In the long run, such actions only make one look prideful and ridiculous ... and produce needless, worthless, anger. Flame wars result when no moderator exists to extinguish them.

[presently no screen name]

We are told to be ready to preach the Gospel. In season and out. And stand in truth, not sit in quiet disagreement.

AMEN!

And how zealous was the apostle Paul? So much so he was thrown into prison. And how about the martyr's today - who proclaim BOLDLY the Word of God - at risk of their own life. If that isn't zealousness, I don't know what is!

Esther - IF I PERISH, I PERISH!

Spiritual battles aren't for the weak of heart.

[agere_contra]

Yes because it’s against the Word of God! When the RCC goes to hell and back, they can claim they can remit sins.

The Word of God Himself gave the Church the power to remit sins.

[ArrogantBustard]

Do the doctrinally wrong require more forgiveness (Grace) to correct doctrinal errors than the right need to correct for pridefulness?

I believe that one cannot receive the Grace of forgiveness until one has repented of one's sins. (Repentance, of course, is also a Grace.) One cannot repent of sins, until one recognises them as sins (also a Grace). It seems to me that recognising Sinful Pride is much more difficult than recognising doctrinal error.

[small voice in the wilderness]

“Knowing therefor the terror of the Lord,we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

[presently no screen name]

Flame wars result when no moderator exists to extinguish them.

Are you saying you lucked out today? I'm asking, I'm not reading your mind.

Furthermore, I wasn't reading your mind - you specifically stated what was on your mind/thought.

such actions only make one look prideful and ridiculous

Now for a refresher...back to eye splint log....

[Colofornian]

From the article excerpt posted: 12. Be zealous therefore, ardently zealous for the salvation of your neighbour...

Indeed.

[Godzilla]

. . . . and I set out to find references in the writings of Christian spiritual masters on the subject.

So you looked to the wisdom of man rather than the wisdom of God presented in the bible?

[vladimir998]

Is the artcle addressing voting for Obama?

[svcw]

True freedom cannot be granted by any man or government, only by Christ.

[Colofornian]

From the posted excerpted article: 10. The value and utility of zeal are in proportion to its tolerance and amiability. True zeal is the offspring of charity; it should then, resemble its mother and show itself like to her in all things. "Charity", says St. Paul, "is patient, is kind, is not ambitious, and seeks not her own." (1 Cor. XIII, 4-5.)

The problem here is that the author didn't allow Scripture to balance itself. The author of this article engaged in Scriptural cherry-picking, citing 1 Cor. 13, vv. 4 & 5...but did an "abortion" in cutting it off before v. 6.

Yes, love is patient; kind; not ambitious; not self-seeking. But what does love do according to 1 Cor. 13:6? Love rejoices in the truth!

Too many people want to only focus on love, without realizing it's also wedded to truth.

[Alex Murphy]

Hmmm. Is highlighting certain words zealousness? See post #20.

LOL! What about the evils of excerpting, ellipses, and URL links?

[r9etb]

I disagree. I used to work with teenagers (both as a teacher and a church youth director). Their negative view of Christians is because of how Christians are portrayed in the media, movies, TV, news, etc.

That's a big part of it, of course. But you know as well as I do that those negative stereotypes have a basis in reality.

And, more to the point, teens can also point you to people they actually know, who reinforce the negative image portrayed in the media -- people who are smug in their own salvation, for example, or whose actions are at odds with the truths they claim to believe.

Just as an example, my daughter's faith (and that of many other teens) was seriously damaged by a youth pastor who had that attitude, and that image was mirrored by those toward whom he played favorites..... She's verrrry slowly coming around, as she sees the God's truth acted out by those who approach it honestly and humbly.

Several years ago, I had a friend, upon finding out that I was a Born Again Christian responded with a shocked look and an exclamaition of “No you’re not! You don’t act anything like the people in that movie ‘Saved’!!” I had similar conversations with a few other friends.

Which is pretty much my point. You probably don't come across as arrogant or hypocritical -- you're no doubt humble and careful in your approach, even if you're telling hard truths.

But I seriously doubt that those people's impressions came only from the media; I would bet that they know actual people whose behavior isn't all that different from the folks in "Saved."

I know I've been guilty of that sort of thing, as have most of us. It all comes down to a contest between pridefulness and humility, and within ourselves pridefulness often wins out.

[ArrogantBustard]

Are you saying you lucked out today?

No, I'm saying that flame wars result when no moderator exists to extinguish them.

That was not a personal comment, although your question could be interpreted as an attempt to make it personal.

Furthermore, I wasn't reading your mind

You came close enough to it to get a warning. Raising the topic of whether I'm following my own advice is making me the subject of discussion, rather than the issue at hand. I believe that's why RM entered into the discussion; historical precedent is the basis for that belief.

[presently no screen name]

AMEN!!

[Osage Orange]

Ditto what you said.......

I like the "bigot" label the best though...........

LOL