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Milwaukee priests lament more accurate Roman Missal translation; ‘salt in the wounds’ (Catholic Cau)
Catholic Culture ^ | August 5, 2010

Posted on 08/05/2010 12:09:36 PM PDT by NYer

Milwaukee priests quoted in a local newspaper article on the third edition of the Roman Missal are lamenting the revised translations, which more closely reflect the content and majesty of the original Latin.

“The bottom line for me is why,” said Father Alan Jurkus. “Why, with everything else that's going on in the Church, do we have to rub salt in the wounds?”

“For some people this will be very unsettling,” added Father Ken Smits. “The real concern is among the parish priests, who will have to explain something many of them are not in favor of.”

“You can call it whatever you like, but it's not English,” said Father David Cooper, president of the Milwaukee Archdiocese Priests Alliance. “The language of prayer is supposed to be evocative, graceful, uplifting. This reads like clunk-clunk-clunk-bang-boom.”

“Anytime there are changes, people go through the process of being angry and sad,” responded Dean Daniels, who leads the archdiocese’s office of worship. “But the Church has been changing forever. It’s a dynamic, living organism.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiccaucus; milwaukee; missal

1 posted on 08/05/2010 12:09:37 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
These changes can't come soon enough for me.

Lamh Foistenach Abu!
2 posted on 08/05/2010 12:12:28 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN '69 - St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle!)
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To: NYer

They are free to join their ex-queer-in-chief Archbishop Weakland in retirement if they wish.

Otherwise STFU.

Sorry for the harshness but I am sick of being told I’m too stupid to understand the new translations.


3 posted on 08/05/2010 12:13:11 PM PDT by jtal
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
How many of these priests were ordained under former Archbishop Rembert Weakland?! This is a continuation of his legacy to the Catholics in that diocese.


On May 23 rd (2002), Catholics across America started their Thursday mornings with another in a long string of shocking revelations as Paul Marcoux went on ABC's "Good Morning America" and accused longtime Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert Weakland of sexual assault. Additionally, Marcoux revealed that in 1998 Weakland paid him a sum of $450,000 to keep their "relationship" quiet. Now 53 years old, Marcoux was a theology student at Marquette University 20 years prior when he approached the archbishop for advice on going into the priesthood. It was during this encounter that the alleged abuse took place.1

In a statement released the same day, Weakland denied the abuse accusation but refused to comment on the financial arrangement, deferring to its confidentiality clause:

Except that the intent of the confidentially provision was for Marcoux's silence, not the archbishop's. That same day, Weakland, who almost two months earlier had reached the mandatory age of retirement and submitted his resignation to Rome, asked that his pending request be expedited. The Vatican announced acceptance of Weakland's retirement that next day. Bishop Richard J. Sklba took over interim leadership of the archdiocese and delivered the following tribute:

If there is any justice, he will indeed get every bit of respect he has earned for himself. After a week of near seclusion, Weakland returned to the spotlight to deliver a hollow apology:

After which he knelt before the altar and received a 90-second standing ovation from the congregation/audience. Lest we are tempted to carelessly join in this amnesic love-fest, remember that it takes very little courage to admit wrongdoing and deliver an apology only after one has been publicly exposed and no options to continue hiding the scandal with power and money remain. The whole world found out what he had done and were presented with two indisputable pieces of evidence. Weakland had the choice of fading into obscurity and denial or salvaging what remained of his respectability with a Jimmy Swaggart routine. For someone who loves the spotlight and values his "work" as much as Weakland does, he was left with no choice. However contrite and worthy of forgiveness this fallen prelate may now be, it does not negate the damage done over the past thirty-five years, nor does it change at all the lessons that must be learned.

Archbishop Weakland's Legacy

4 posted on 08/05/2010 12:13:30 PM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer
My husband and I have been talking about this lately. My husband is actually pretty excited about it. I'm looking forward to it as well.

We know that a lot of people are going to have a problem with this, but too bad. Deal with it. Change is tough, but what some of the Church's have been doing to the Mass is terrible. It must change. People took Vatican II and ran with it.

It might be difficult to adjust to at first, but people will adjust. It is just going to take some time and patience, that's all.

5 posted on 08/05/2010 12:17:33 PM PDT by Mrs. Frogjerk
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To: jtal
I agree, that if they don't like the institution that they agreed to serve, unselfishly, then they need to leave.

The cowboys of old had a saying that if you, the cowboy, don't like the 'brand' you are riding for, then quit and find another that is more to you liking.

6 posted on 08/05/2010 12:20:12 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: jtal
They are free to join their ex-queer-in-chief Archbishop Weakland in retirement if they wish.

See my post #4 just below yours.

7 posted on 08/05/2010 12:20:58 PM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer

I wonder how they found these particular priests.


8 posted on 08/05/2010 12:21:51 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: jtal

The language in your post is questionable for the Religion forum, but I agree completely with the spirit of your comment. Imho, these priests are CINOs.


9 posted on 08/05/2010 12:25:38 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

Dear Fr. Cooper:

Peace be with you.
AND WITH YOUR SPIRIT.


10 posted on 08/05/2010 12:41:23 PM PDT by rwa265 (Christ my Cornerstone)
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To: NYer

Time for retirement me thinks.


11 posted on 08/05/2010 12:47:50 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: NYer

My guess is that the really don’t want to have to say “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grevious fault.” (Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa)


12 posted on 08/05/2010 12:48:05 PM PDT by rwa265 (Christ my Cornerstone)
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To: NYer

“The real concern is among the parish priests, who will have to explain something many of them are not in favor of.”

&&&
Oh, the poor widdle things. They are also probably among the ones “in favor of” ordaining women.


13 posted on 08/05/2010 1:21:49 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin/Hunter 2012 -- Bolton their Secretary of State)
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To: NYer

Are both neo-catholics and trads allowed to post in a catholic caucus thread?


14 posted on 08/05/2010 1:25:35 PM PDT by fire4effect
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To: fire4effect
Are both neo-catholics and trads allowed to post in a catholic caucus thread?

The Catholic Church is one ... not divided. This is a Catholic caucus thread.

15 posted on 08/05/2010 1:40:27 PM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer

Hmm. I have a quirky question, which maybe somebody here could ansewr: can the Mass prayers be licitly “said” by the priest in Sign Language, e.g. Gallaudet ASL?


16 posted on 08/05/2010 1:52:33 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (In theory. there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra)
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To: NYer

“The language of prayer is supposed to be evocative, graceful, uplifting. This reads like clunk-clunk-clunk-bang-boom.”

Ah shucks. The boys don’t like the end of this era’s heterodoxy, the past decades of anything goes.


17 posted on 08/05/2010 1:52:53 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Hmm. I have a quirky question, which maybe somebody here could ansewr: can the Mass prayers be licitly “said” by the priest in Sign Language, e.g. Gallaudet ASL?

There's a deaf church in Lanham MD that my wife and I used to attend; our daughter was baptized there. I would have to say yes, signing the Mass is licit.

Center for Deaf Ministries

18 posted on 08/05/2010 2:00:18 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: COBOL2Java

Oh, good! I’ll have to read that. I knew there must be an alert, well-informed FReeper out there who would know the answer.


19 posted on 08/05/2010 2:17:53 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Baruch atah Adonai Elohenu melech ha'olam, hamotzi lechem min ha'aretz.)
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To: COBOL2Java
And here's some other links: Canon Lawyer Ed Peters' letter to the Adoremus Bulletin on the Liturgy in Sign Language and his second, equally excellent letter. --- Helen Hitchcock opted not to print either one, which rather disturbed me because as a faithful, fair-minded, and intelligent advocate on liturgical issues, she should have welcomed Ed Peters' contribution as an informed opinion, even if at some points she sees difficulties in his approach.

Anyway, even people who aren't deaf, or don't have deaf loved ones, can, I think, benefit from this discussion. It illuminates the two underlying points: on the one hand the language is deeply important, but on the other hand not all elements of "style" are worth yelling and griping about, if the words say the right stuff.

BTW, I like reading the Spanish version in the missalette, because I'm not so very good in Spanish. . It's paradoxically, an advantage, because I have to slow way down and mull it. So I can grasp the different way it expresses what's in the editio typica and it --- I can't 'splain it --- makes my neural net sparkle.

20 posted on 08/05/2010 2:58:03 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Mammalia Primatia Hominidae Homo sapiens. Still working on the "sapiens" part.)
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To: trisham; jtal
jtal told them to Shut Their Faces Up.

Right?

21 posted on 08/05/2010 3:01:29 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: fire4effect
What's a "neo-catholic"?

What's a "trad"?

All I know about are Catholics. Some assist at Mass according to the Ordinary Form, some according to the Extraordinary Form, some according to the Anglican Usage, and some according to various Eastern Liturgies.

But we're all Catholic.

22 posted on 08/05/2010 3:04:34 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mrs. Frogjerk

I am very excited about it. Guess you might call me disobedient because I am already saying many of the new responses softly.


23 posted on 08/05/2010 3:51:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
“Why, with everything else that's going on in the Church, do we have to rub salt in the wounds?”

Boohoohoo. These liberals have been rubbing salt in the wounds for too long. It is time to heal the wounds.

24 posted on 08/05/2010 4:01:52 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: NYer

“...said Father Alan Jurkus. “Why, with everything else that’s going on in the Church, do we have to rub salt in the wounds?”

“For some people this will be very unsettling,” added Father Ken Smits. “The real concern is among the parish priests, who will have to explain something many of them are not in favor of.””

These are only two of many priests who really need to be prayed for. Check out this priest in Nashville:

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2010/08/holy-heretic-batman.html#comments

Sad....very sad....


25 posted on 08/05/2010 4:19:16 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: NYer

It would appear that that most embarrassed would be those who introduced or were silent with debut of the Novus Ordo in the 1960’s to the chagrin of the many. Apologies need to be addressed to those who had to endure this horrible translation for these many decades. Perhaps a show trial or two for the ones responsible for this atrocity.


26 posted on 08/05/2010 4:52:27 PM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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To: Mrs. Frogjerk

The reformers sure didn’t hesitate to dump a liturgy that was familiar to and loved by hundreds of millions of Catholics and impose on them one that was to the taste of the reformers. As to the “English” that the Wisconsin priests is so attached to, It is on a par with the lyrics of the guitar songs of those days.


27 posted on 08/05/2010 5:09:00 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

righto :-)


28 posted on 08/05/2010 5:52:01 PM PDT by jtal
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To: NYer

Out, damn’d heretic! out, I say!—One; two: why, then ‘tis time to do’t.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and afeard? What need we fear who knows it?

Will no-one rid Christianity of these troublesome heretics?


29 posted on 08/05/2010 6:48:30 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: NYer

The progressives had no problem sticking it to the traditionalists 40 years ago, now that the beauty of the liturgy is to be restored, I’m supposed to feel bad?


30 posted on 08/05/2010 7:22:18 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Secular conservatism is liberalism.)
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To: COBOL2Java

Do they have a hymnal?


31 posted on 08/05/2010 7:25:20 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Secular conservatism is liberalism.)
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To: NYer
“You can call it whatever you like, but it's not English,” said Father David Cooper, president of the Milwaukee Archdiocese Priests Alliance. “The language of prayer is supposed to be evocative, graceful, uplifting. This reads like clunk-clunk-clunk-bang-boom.”

Actually, that's more like what we've been living with the for the last 30 years.

I miss the beauty in the Scriptures that was sacrificed for 'inclusive' language, and simplification.

32 posted on 08/05/2010 8:26:28 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: TradicalRC
Do they have a hymnal?

I'm an interpreter for the deaf and yes, we sing.

33 posted on 08/06/2010 3:56:29 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; jtal

I hope so.


34 posted on 08/06/2010 5:56:46 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

Most (I’m not exaggerating) Milwaukee priests are working for the other side. Weakland is the gift that keeps on giving.


35 posted on 11/23/2011 7:29:49 PM PST by schmootman
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To: NYer
I am looking forward to the new Liturgy. I just hope we never return to the late ‘60s when we were singing campfire songs in church like “Kumbaya” and “Michael, Row Your Boat Ashore”.
36 posted on 11/23/2011 7:44:35 PM PST by mtg
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To: NYer

Through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault.


37 posted on 11/23/2011 8:26:58 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

**“The language of prayer is supposed to be evocative, graceful, uplifting. **

And the new translation is graceful, uplifting and prayerful.

Just remember these three things and listen for them.

Longer sentences
Higher linguistic register
More accurate to the Latin from where it all came.

I think it’s beautiful.


38 posted on 11/23/2011 8:29:07 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mrs. Frogjerk

It won’t be difficulot to adjust to. The prayers are so close to the older missals that we all grew up with.


39 posted on 11/23/2011 8:30:26 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mrs. Frogjerk

Actually most of the changes are for the priest.


40 posted on 11/23/2011 8:31:07 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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