Do either of you have a mirror? Because these words of yours do not sound like the love your neighbor type. Since I got lumped in with the "Reformed" crowd - yes, I admit I'm a OSAS (GASP!!!)- let me proclaim that I love others and treat them the way I would want to be. I try very, very hard to even love people the way Christ loves them. I do not sneer at unbelievers, I do not curse them or try to belittle them, I do not boast of my perfection because however much good I might have within me, it is all from the grace of God and not a drop is self-fabricated.
We "Protestants", "Reformers" or whatever else label you prefer do not impose our will upon God for their own salvation and that statement itself makes no sense whatsoever. I am pretty sure, after all these posts, that you really don't believe it's true either but are trying to make a point.
As we near 9000+ posts on a thread with dubious beginnings, why don't we close up shop and start over on a more civil one. This one has only become a chopping block for one against another of those who both claim to be "ones of Christ's". Can we no longer act that way or have all the bridges been burned?
You express reasonable sentiments.
However, I persistently relate to folks
AS I’D LIKE TO BE RELATED TO
. . . genuinely . . .
. . . all my posts considered . . .
And you know how much I’m castigated! LOL.
I don’t think some RC’s can wrap their Rosaries or understanding around such an assertion without choking on them.
I like long threads . . . what a tableau of the human drama they represent.
They wander all over the countryside like life does.
And, sooner or later . . . most folks display their priorities, values and multiple faces.
Maybe we could call it truth serum by thread length. LOL.
I behold a smoking ruin.
There will never be civility in the Religion Forum. Someone will always say something shockingly inane and then it's "Annie get your gun", "Katie bar the door" and "Cletus hold my beer and watch this".
You wanna know why this thread is the state it's in? Go look at post 64, then 80, 85, 91 and then it just explodes. That's not to say that after the opening shots Catholic didn't provoke further madness. The bottom line remains: there are people who appear to be convinced that Catholicism is totally demonic and they will never miss an opportunity to drive that opinion down the throat of the nearest Catholic.
So, every thread, that is not a caucus thread is capable of turning into one of these mega sado-evangelism threads at the drop of a hat. When this one finally dies the next one will erupt within hours and the same people will be saying the same things in the same manner. A Catholic may start the next one, who knows. The fact remains, nobody is willing to say: This time, just once, nobody dies today.
Some don't like to be challenged in their beliefs and take each challenge as an attack, others can't or won't defend what they say because they haven't ever really given their beliefs deep examination and think sarcastic repartee’ is the same thing as defence.
And others are just arrogant, too arrogant to ever admit their views might be mistaken no matter how much stands against their opinion in evidence of experience so they insult or ridicule as if that proves the other person wrong and themselves right.
Mix all that with a generous dose of self righteousness and the one upsmanship game never ends.
IMO, your claim is just -- as far as I've seen, your posts are always models of civility and thoughtfulness, with a substantive point to make. If you've taken offense at any of my comments directed to the more rabid posters, I'm sorry, because they weren't meant to include you. I avoided using names partly to avoid "making it personal" and (maybe mostly) because I don't necessarily remember who said what in an 8,000 post thread (and all the other preceding threads, which are near duplicates).
These threads would be about 20% of their length if they were restricted to serious debate, IMO.
BTW, I don't know what OSAS is.
I understand where you are coming from, but consider this: Catholics believe that God is the final Judge; we cannot pin our salvation on ourselves before He does. If you pin salvation on yourself before He does, then you are obliging Him to agree with you. Correct?
We "Protestants", "Reformers" or whatever else label you prefer do not impose our will upon God for their own salvation and that statement itself makes no sense whatsoever. I am pretty sure, after all these posts, that you really don't believe it's true either but are trying to make a point.
The self identification of having personal salvation means exactly that.