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To: Logophile; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; Colofornian; Zuriel; Vendome; ejonesie22; SZonian; caww; ...
Well now that is just the ultimate in parsing from a supposed honest Mormon! Did your peepstone prophet teach that the god of Mormonism who Mormonism teaches sired Jesus that this Mormon god was once a man like you or me except he behaved himself so well that he was exalted and gained the attributes of godhood? Well yes he did! And I will quote him directly.

If something began then it had a beginning, so it was either created by someone or something already created, or came to be ex nihilo. By speciously juxtaposing the term 'ex nihilo' with the ... no wait! we should quote you directly:

"... Mormonism does not teach that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are "created beings." Because we do not believe in creation ex nihilo, terms such as created being, necessary being, contingent being, etc. are foreign to our doctrine." logophile(Because Mormon doctrine is not Christianity! As we shall see immediately.)

You have offered a false syllogism, fractured in such a way as to appear truthful, but in reality obfuscating to the max what your religion/religion's founders taught regarding the Mormon god, the Mormon jesus, and the Mormon holy spirit. I will enumerate further ...

You tell us that Mormonism does not teach that god, jesus, and the holy spirit are created beings. In the next breath you eliminate the possibility of creation 'ex nihilo', leaving only--when compared with the teachings from your founders--an endless progression of created beings from which the supposed god council draws the next generations of gods ... which contradicts what God has spoken of regarding His I AM status. You have implied that the universe of spiritual and nonspiritual beings is eternal but the god of Mormonism had a beginning in some distant past realm, yet you want us to be confused into believing you do not believe the god of Mormonism was a created being!

My first observation of such antics is to wonder if you actually are capable of seeing the deceit at the heart of your parsing! So here follows direct quotes from your religion's first great liar, JOseph Smith, then the sleazy parsing of subsequent LDS leaders ... pay close attention to the parsing your peepstone liar uses with the term 'in the beginning':

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)

I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)

"I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)

"Endowed with agency and subject to eternal laws, man began his progression and advancement in pre-existence, his ultimate goal being to attain a state of glory, honor, and exaltation like the Father of spirits. During his earth life he gains a mortal body, receives experience in earthly things, and prepares for a future eternity after the resurrection when he will continue to gain knowledge and intelligence. (D. & C. 130:18-19.) This gradually unfolding course of advancement and experience -- a course that began in a past eternity and will continue in ages future -- is frequently referred to as a course of eternal progression." (For the math challenged, there is no such thing as a different or past eternity separate from the eternity we are traveling now. This flimflam approach to fibbing is prevalent in Mormonism. If something began then it had a beginning, so it was either created or came to be ex nihilo.)
"Those who gain exaltation, having thus enjoyed the fullness of eternal progression, become like God." It should be realized that God is not progressing in knowledge, truth, virtue, wisdom, or any of the attributes of godliness. He has already gained these things in their fullness. But he is progressing in the sense that his creations increase, his dominions expand, his spirit offspring multiply, and more kingdoms are added to his domains. (Elder Bruce McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 5-10.) (So far the teaching from Mormon leadership has left choices: either everything has always existed without ever being created, or the god of Mormonism was on equal standing with each of us in some nebulous past eternity of pre-existence, or everything is created but distributed into separate eternities.)

"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).

"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).

In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)

There is so much collected from the writings of the LDS leadership that is available on the Net we could go on and on quoting this rot. But let's pause to consider the deceit at the heart of this stuff. We'll make an assumption that logophile and all the teachers we've quoted really believe this rot. Whom does that leave as responsible for these heretical teachings? The father of lies, a murderer from the start. And it is he, the father of lies, who is murdering the souls of those who swallow this rot and are drawn away from the simple plan of Salvation through faithing in the Grace of God in Christ. 'Salvation cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.' The above quoted rot from Mormon leaders is not 'The Word of I AM'. It is the lies from the father of lies, writ large as some Christianity lookalike posed speciously as restoration of God's Plan of Salvation.

Mormonism was founded by a liar. You can chose which liar to blame, but the following re-quoted is heresy writ large by Mormonism as gospel from someone, but not the God of the Bible:

I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844) [This is a great lie, too great a lie for even the liar Joseph Smith to have fabricated on his own! So whom is then the founder of Mormonism? HINT: it is not I AM.]

315 posted on 10/29/2010 8:52:12 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thank you oh so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ, and thank you for all those quotes!


367 posted on 10/29/2010 10:17:42 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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