LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible

Utah Lighthouse Ministry.org ^

[MHGinTN]

well? WELL? ... Well, you have a reading comprehension problem, first: AMPU stated if you are NOT ungodly then Jesus's death was not for you. You see, if you are godly (the opposite of ungodly) you are just like Him. How many do you think there are 'just like Him', Stourme? Are you? or are you also ungodly and in need of The Savior? BTW, Stourme, the New Testament is repleat with teaching that when you are in Him, there is no longer any condemnation. If your life is hid with Christ you are His. If you have not His Spirit, you are none of His. You might works amazing things and even prophesy, but if you have not opened your prideful heart to let Him in He will be saying to you at the Great White Throne ... well, you know what he'll say if you are none of His. But the passage in IThess4 tells us there will be a group He will bring with Him so that the dead in Him rise first,t hen who are alive remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. So, as we shall be with the Lord, we will not be standing for the great judgment where deeds of life are judged. Didn't you read the post I offered for your edumacation?

[Godzilla]

[aMorePerfectUnion] Yes, HE came to die for the UNGODLY! Not the “worthy”. Any other supposed qualification comes from cultic heresy. If you are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

The premise of this statement is foolish and wrong on many levels. But I doubt any of the so called "christians" will raise up to correct you.

No, AMPU is spot on with this exergesis. Paul writes same =

Ro 5:8* But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The 'wrong' is mormon emphasis that one must be 'worthy' first.

But the chains are on you stormy - it is mormonism where you must be 'fully repentant' to be forgiven.

Christianity is correct - the 'work' is done completely by Christ. “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” (John 1:29) I don't see stormy's (or my name) as the one taking it away from the world.

Christ came for everyone and invites all men to follow him. There can be NO GODLY people with out the atonement of Christ. Jesus Christ paid the price for sin for all those who would follow Him.

you've just sunk your argument with this stormy. Christ's atonement permitted the ungodly to approach the throne of grace where HE took the sins away and then made sinner 'godly'. Paul speaks to this in the enlarged passage from Romans that sticks in your craw stormy -

Rom 4:13-23 Paul talks about Abraham and that his righteousness was imputed to him on the basis of his faith alone. Rom 4: 24-25 Paul makes clear that the same righteousness is imputed to us by simple faith where in vs 25 Paul states "Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification." Jesus wasn't delivered for us ONLY WHEN WE BECOME GODLY - but for our OFFENSES. Paul continues to rise up in support of AMPU's statement:

5:1* ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2* By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Still see nothing where the person must become godly first. We are dikaioo by faith, dikaioo greek meaning be rendered righteous - by Christ as there is no mention of any works on our part - the whole section refers to Jesus doing the work.

Paul further rebukes your claim stormy

Rom 5:6* For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Now what did AMPU say earlier? [aMorePerfectUnion] Yes, HE came to die for the UNGODLY!

Word for word what Paul wrote in verse 6. In verse 7, Paul puts the final nail in your doctrinal coffin -

7* For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Yet as spoken in verses 6 and 8 - Jesus died for the ungodly.

Sorry stormy if you jumped on the wrong bandwagon.

[MHGinTN]

Wow, interesting typo. The sentence should read "the dead in Him rise first, then we who are alive in Him and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. ... IThess4 makes several things clear: the dead in Christ are spirtually with Him but they will be coming back here to Earth to receive physical bodies; we who are alive in Him are those in whom He dwells in the person of the Holy Spirit; we shall be transformed to have physcial bodies like those whom God brings with Him; this being with Him shall be forever so there is therefore now no condemnation.

[Stourme]

[MHGinTN] The Lord rebuke you. I am instructed to judge according to your words. Didn't you know? But I cannot and will not declare your final destiny, for that is in God's providence. But know this, Stourme, if you persist in blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the Bible is VERY clear as to the destiny of such an one.

But I cannot and will not declare your final destiny,

[Stourme] That's what you just did. "You're not righteous enough to get a good report."

[MHGinTN]As I believe the promises of God and am faithing in His integrity,

I'm sure you think you are. I'm going to afford you the kindness that you don't give me and not proclaim you a member of some cult. Your beliefs are your own.

The difference is, I don't have to ignore scripture for my doctrine to work.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?  can faith save him?

Why do you keep insisting that your faith alone will save you when James, in the plainest way possible, says that's wrong?
Is it so important to not be wrong that you refuse to learn?

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Can you accept the Bible brother MHG? Can you accept all of it and not just the parts you like?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

If you don't believe James, will you believe Jesus?

Is it because you don't really know what to do? Is that it? Ignoring it won't make it go away.

[MHGinTN]

You have need of more study, to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the Word, because you certainly don't know how yet.

"Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:" Stourme, who are the 'them' Jesus is referring to and what are the things Jesus commanded them to do? HINT: Jesus was referring to those Saved and baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of The Holy Spirit, and the things 'them' are to do is love God first and above all, and love one another. Jesus was referring to those in Whom His Salvation has arrived and have lives left to live. Remember what Jesus told the Pharisees who were desperate to know what God command that they do to do the works of righteousness? ... You seen the passage posted for your edification on more than one occasion. Do you believe Jesus?

BTW, Storume, in my post to you where I mention judging, perhaps it would help you if i use 'weigh' and 'weighing' as in weighing your words against what the Bible teaches. So I'll try to do that hereafter, for clarity. It's a good word substitution, since God used it in Daniel Chapter five also (HINT: Mene mene tekel upharsin)

[Stourme]

RM can I get a ruling on this constant post after post of Godzilla misspelling my screen name as making it personal? Thanks. See post #102

But the chains are on you stormy

[Religion Moderator]

Don’t tinker with other posters’ screen names.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

What Godzilla and MHGinTN wrote in response to your post gives more explanation than you even need to understand that without the acknowledgement that YOU are ungodly, Christ’s gospel willdo you no good.

In fact, it is the Mormon insistence on proving themselves worthy that will keep them from His Gospel of grace - and land so many in hell.

Christ came to die for the ungodly. I’m one of the ungodly He died for, thankfully!

AMPU

[Godzilla]

OK, but it is a very thin skinned method of responding to a post

Do you have a legitimate response Stourme

[Godzilla]

What Godzilla and MHGinTN wrote in response to your post gives more explanation than you even need to understand that without the acknowledgement that YOU are ungodly, Christ’s gospel willdo you no good.

And not just YOUR words AMPU (please don't report me to the mod), but the very words from the Bible.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“RM can I get a ruling on this constant post after post of Godzilla misspelling my screen name as making it personal? Thanks. See post #102 “

Didn’t stourme just “tinker” with your screen name, Religion Moderator?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

No problemo, senior Lizard... In the religion forum we are instructed to have thick skin. The ones who do not are to be considered disruptors according to the guidelines.

[Religion Moderator]

I don’t consider initials to be tinkering. If someone calls you “ampu,” that is not tinkering with your screen name. However, if someone calls you “Perfect Onion” that would be tinkering.

[Godzilla]

And a pretty lame tactic when shown verbatum from the bible your stance is correct.

[MHGinTN]

But what if he's more leaks than onions? ... Seriesly,this coul dget hugh and series if you don't put a stop to it. What will Resty do when she can no longer ... Oops, that's making it personal.
Never mind.

[Stourme]

[MHGinTN] You have need of more study, to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the Word, because you certainly don't know how yet.

I'm sure you think I do.

Jesus had this same problem in His time.

John 5:38 - 40
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The Jews read their scriptures but couldn't see that Jesus was the Messaiah. Can't see the forest for the trees.

[MHGinTN]Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:" Stourme, who are the 'them'

"them" is irrelevant. The point is He is commanding them to go 'do'. Teach them to observe all the things... According to you there's only one thing to observe. This proves you wrong.

2 Timothy 3:1 - 8
1 THIS know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

For this conversation there are several points to be taken from this scripture. It gives a warning for those in the last days, or our time.

• Have a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away
• The priests that denied the prophet, so do these also

Have a form of godliness, but deny the power of it. Those are people that go around repeating the name of God. But they ignore most of the Bible. They don't believe God has the power to call a prophet in the last days. They claim all you have to do is believe while at the same time refusing to acknowledge the relationship of works to salvation. They deny that God has the power have more of His written down than what's in their little Bibles. (Which they don't really believe anways)

Jannes and Jambres were priests in Pharoahs court. In the last days or our time, these people will fight against the true prophet. Just like these men did to Moses.

Jesus gave the same warning:

Luke 13:23 - 24
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved?  And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

People striving or seeking the way to heaven but won't be able to get in.

Luke 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

These people think they are with Jesus. They believe is their Lord. But they will not be allowed into heaven.
As Paul says, they only have a form of Godliness.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Simply having faith that Jesus is your savior is not enough. The are crying Lord Lord but not DOING the will of God. They have a form of Godliness...but that's it.

[Godzilla]

Still waiting for the intelligent mormon reply stourme ‘cause I’m all out of cheese. Is you skin thick enough to acknowledge that you have your scriptures wrong.

Its right here

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2622457/posts?page=102#102

[MHGinTN]

"them" is irrelevant._Stourme

Bless your little heart, Stourme, you still miss the mark. Asserting that it is irrelevant is precisely how the lies of Mormonism are inveigled, by ignoring the context, to whom a passage is directed, and finding agreement or disagreement in the other scriptures. It's kind of like assuming when Paul said the Bereans search the scriptures daily he was referring to the new Testament, which is silly since it was not yet written, so He must have been referring to the existing Jewish scriptures. But you would not know that unless you studied to know when the various scriptures were authored and in what languages, and written by whom, and from where to whom, etc. So you see, Stourme, you have shown yourself not yet ready to divide the scriptures rightly.

Now, why don't you go and read the passage from Matthew you offered, to see whom is the 'them', and to what Jesus is referring.

[Stourme]

[Godzilla]OK, but it is a very thin skinned method of responding to a post

Do you have a legitimate response Stourme

Umm sure since you asked for one... you broke the forum rules and you got slapped.
So deal with it...

Here's a tissue...

[MHGinTN]

"The are crying Lord Lord but not DOING the will of God. They have a form of Godliness...but that's it."_Stourme

Stourme, I'm going to rightly quote then 'divide' the Bible passage for you, to give you an illustration of simple exegesis.

2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

First, do you know what is the 'power thereof' with this godliness? You know only God has godliness, right? So, it is possible to show a form of godliness but not have God-liness, according to the passage. When salvation /being born again happens, at that point in time the saved have the Holy Spirit come into their human spirit. As the person lives the subsequent life, the presence of God as the Holy Spirit in their human spirit brings forth godliness, real godliness as source in God, not human endeavor.

Those who show a form of this leadership but are not being lead by His Spirit, these have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof ... to pretend at godliness is to deny God's Holy Spirit to author the godliness which God produces in the Born Again. Until you can have that godliness authored by His presence in you, you are not going to be able to produce a good enough report to reach a state of worthiness for God Grace ... it cannot be done. And here's why: the Ten Commandments are a description of God's nature and unless you can live up to ever one of those ten you are in violation of not having godliness, not having God's nature.

A Christian, in God's sight, has His nature in them because God places a smidgen/the earnest of the inheritance of His Holy Spirit presence in the Born Again.

When a Mormon tells us that God's Grace, His Nature only comes into one after all that they can do to earn the Grace, they are denying the power of godliness, denying that it is ONLY God's Holy Spirit Who can produce the godliness of His nature in the Born Again.

Only Jesus has ever lived up to the ten commandments, because He could not sin, His seed/His Godliness nature remained within Him as He walked among us ... The Word made flesh Who dwelt among us.

When Stourme thinks he can have real godliness without the God of that nature within his human spirit to Author that Nature which is His nature, then Stourme is 'denying the power thereof'.