LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible

Utah Lighthouse Ministry.org ^

[Colofornian]

LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...

It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).

LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:

"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).

LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:

"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:

"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).

LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:

"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)

LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:

"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).

LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:

"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)

LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:

"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:

"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).

As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:

"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]

Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:

"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son ­ embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]

LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).

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What the Bible Says About God

1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.

"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12

"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6

"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25

The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.

2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.

"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4

"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9

"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17

"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5

"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142

The LDS god achieved holiness.

3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.

"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5

The LDS god had to learn everything.

4. ALL POWERFUL

"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6

"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20

The LDS god attained his power.

5. OMNIPRESENT

"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1

"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24

The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.

6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION

"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24

"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6

"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6

The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.

7. NO OTHER GODS

"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8

"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9

"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8

The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.

For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:

Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science

[Religion Moderator]

If the complaint is "completely ridiculous and totally laughable" then you should not bring even more attention to it but instead ignore it.

On the thin skin issue, my responsibility involves separating the ones who are truly offended from those who only pretend to be offended.

The former have no business on "open" Religion Forum threads - the latter may be trying to get a thread pulled, a poster or source banned, policy changed, etc. The latter sometimes threaten to withhold donations if posters don't stop offending them, etc. The solutions vary accordingly.

The former are best served by being told to "leave the thread" and/or ignore "open" Religion Forum threads altogether.

But that kind of on-thread attention to the latter allows him/her to play the e-martyr and further his own agenda. And so how I deal with him/her depends on more than what meets the eye and it may or may not be apparent on thread.

[greyfoxx39]

But that kind of on-thread attention to the latter allows him/her to play the e-martyr and further his own agenda. And so how I deal with him/her depends on more than what meets the eye and it may or may not be apparent on thread.

Well, it appears that agreeing with the poster regarding "tinkering" certainly allows him to "play the e-martyr and further his own agenda."

I do have to reiterate...after the names we have been called and accusations made against us, the attention given to someone feeling insulted by being called "Stormy" is quite unexpected. Perhaps the Inmans are mistaken in not making more of the personal slurs directed at us daily.

What were the directives made by you when we were called murderers, arsonists etc? I may have missed seeing them.

[MHGinTN]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Without His Spirit you cannot discern. The overwhelming message of the New Testament is that by faith we are made new. Read a few examples:

Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour. [This woman, in Judaic law, was a wholy unclean one because of her issue of blood for years and years. Knowing she was unclean, knowing what an offense her presence would be counted, in faith that He could heal her she snuck up and touched the hem of his garment, thus she had faith that doing this deed would make her whole ... and Jesus confirmed her faith, not her deed, by acknowledging her deed which followed her faith!]

Mark 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Mark 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way. [What did Jesus say made this blind man whole?]

Luke 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. [What did Peter declare brought this cure of a man crippled from birth?]

And how does one gain this astonishingly powerful faith? ...

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And where is found this Word that brings faith? ...

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

And what is the result of this faith which cometh by hearing? ...

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

To set about to do this great work on your own power is to deny the Holy Spirit the transformative work He is sent to believers to do. BY faith you can walk in newness of life and be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That renewing is the work of His Holy Spirit! Is there better than God's good pleasure? Not for those created by Him. Well then where is Mormon boasting of 'after all that we can do'? ...

Romans 3: 23-28 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

As a man believes himself fulfilling the deeds of the law to obtain righteousness, he is stumbling in the same lie fed to eve in the Garden. Mormonism is the purveyor of this same lie, that by the deeds of the law a Mormon can be made rigtheous enough to obtain God's Grace. That is blasphemous for it denies the Holy Spirit His work in them, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

It is a lie to say that the predominance of the New Testament is other than justification by faith. Once faith arises, faith in His Deliverance, then works will follow as they are authored by His Spirit in you.

[MHGinTN]

After Church ping

[Religion Moderator]

In order for a poster to be "making it personal" his remark must be addressed to another Freeper, personally.

It is not unusual for Catholics or Protestants to point out lethal persecutions and it would not be "making it personal" to accuse a group of murder, burning villages, etc. Likewise it would not be "making it personal" to point out Mormon v anti-Mormon violence (e.g. Nauvoo, Mountain Meadows) - or condemn a group of murder, etc.

If however one Freeper accuses another Freeper of being a murderer or arsonist, etc. that is clearly a personal attack and not allowed anywhere on Free Republic. Send me the links to any such claims by Freepmail and I will follow-up.

[Vendome]

You’re good.

Perfect demonstration of received faith and a pointed example where God says “ALL” meaning everyone and every last person have fallen short of the glory of God.

God gives no set aside for a special group of people, a system of belief and most importantly any specific works nor the volume of works for your salvation.

Man can do nothing to effect his salvation but for accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Your spirit will be changed in that moment and you will act demonstrably different and changed ever more as your conscience will direct you.

Will you do it perfectly? Nope! You are a messed up unit just like every other being.

But will work in you and through you compelling you move and act as he would have you for the edification of God, the improvement of man and by example leading others to move closer to God and others who will absolutely cry out for God’s help and receive it through salvation and a changed spirit.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

RM,
Thanks for a thoughtful response. I appreciate all that
goes on behind the scenes and the thankless task you
must face each day.

Best,
ampu (your perfect onion)

[greyfoxx39]

It is not unusual for Catholics or Protestants to point out lethal persecutions and it would not be "making it personal" to accuse a group of murder, burning villages, etc. Likewise it would not be "making it personal" to point out Mormon v anti-Mormon violence (e.g. Nauvoo, Mountain Meadows) - or condemn a group of murder, etc.

If the RF rules are flexible enough to include "tinkering with a name", IMO they should be flexible enough to include the smearing of a group of present-day FReepers

I don't see your response to this post

But JR DID respond

I guess he saw it a little more inflammatory than someone being called "Stormy".

Recently this kind of "impersonal" garbage has been posted in the RF several times. There IS a difference between naming a church or government "arsonists or murderers" and naming a group of FReepers as such.

My advice to the Inmans is to ignore the thin-skinned poster altogether, even when he [makes it personal].

[aMorePerfectUnion]

I assume that when you refer to the “thin-skinned poster”,
you mean:

S_OUR— ?

[I’m thinking tinkering with initials is OK...]

[greyfoxx39]

I referred to the whiny poster who thought it was so much fun to [slam Inmans in post after post] then cried about someone who used a very mild nickname.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

I think you mean SOUR

[Stourme]

RM, thanks for all the work you do patrolling and enforcing the rules of the forum. I for one appreciate the work you do.

I for one will try to obey the forum rules and follow your rulings with out complaint.

Thanks again!

[Religion Moderator]

That thread was not posted on the Religion Forum.

[Stourme]

[MHGinTN] It is a lie to say that the predominance of the New Testament is other than justification by faith. Once faith arises, faith in His Deliverance, then works will follow as they are authored by His Spirit in you.



[Stourme] I bow to your elite strawman skills. Creating a false argument around points we were not discussing then attacking those points.... whew.

[MHGinTN] BTW, Stourme, there is a way to understand this passage in James as not contradictory to the rest of the scriptures. Would you like to read it? ... Here goes:

No! I don't need any gobble-d-gook. I don't need any spin cycle wacked out drawn out ratonalizations....

James 2:14 - 17
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?  can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The context is clear and plain... it doesn't need to be translated into hebrew, greek, latin or klingon

Faith without works is dead. What works? Verse 15 & 16. Feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. Period.
With out doing those works, you have no faith, and without faith you cannot be saved.

---> Now, will you admit that with out feeding the hungry and clothing the naked you cannot be saved? <----

All I'm asking you to do is just say that James was correct. 

[MHGinTN] BTW, Stourme, there is a way to understand this passage in James as not contradictory to the rest of the scriptures. Would you like to read it? ... Here goes:

No! I don't need any gobble-d-gook. I don't need any spin cycle wacked out drawn out ratonalizations....

James 2:14 - 17
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?  can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The context is clear and plain... it doesn't need to be translated into hebrew, greek, latin or klingon

Faith without works is dead. What works? Verse 15 & 16. Feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. Period.
With out doing those works, you have no faith, and without faith you cannot be saved.

---> Now, will you admit that with out feeding the hungry and clothing the naked you cannot be saved? <----

[greyfoxx39]

That thread was not posted on the Religion Forum.

It still wouldn't have made the cut re: RF rules. Not personal enough. There would have had to be some flexibility to address it in the RF.

[Tennessee Nana]

May i take this opportunity to state that there have been have been intentionally attempted at offending me more than once in these threads...

To the point of being accussed about a year ago of planning to crucify certain FReepers upon crosses..

“e-martyrs” indeed...

However I had to quickly grow new and thicker skin, grit my teeth, and journey on through the race..

The LORD Jesus Christ is more important than I, a mere piece in the great jigsaw puzzle of the Bride of Christ..

[MHGinTN]

When will you read the posts I’ve already posted for you? The answer to your demand is there, if you but read the posts. ... Can you hear me now?

[restornu]

are you for real all of us at one time or another have refeedr to the Religion Morerator as RM

I am called Resty you refer to yourself even as AMPU these handles are not derogatory!

BTW Onions are good for the heart therefore I would never refer to you as Onion!

[MHGinTN]

It was your whining fellow Momron apologist who pinged the RM first over a miss spelling of his screen name. Pay attention if you’re going to try and be obnoxious.

[Elsie]

The issue first came up probably a year ago when the “bs” in a poster’s screen name was being upper-cased.

An 'issue' coming up is not the same as a rule being promulgated.

When did the RULE become FR law?