LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible

The good works are forordanined and the result of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

If that’s the best you can do, and that fluff suits you, then God has much more to say unto you.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I believe the above is talking about what we should do instead of what we should not do, in other words Jesus died so our sins would be forgiven us, for those who believe, that has been established.

But we also have to live our life here on this earth, if we can not obey God when he tells us not to do something, how about trying to obey him when he tells us to do something?

A friend of mine commented that he had failed miserably on the first part, but said he was doing better on the second part.

He said that he was badly tempted by women, so the no,s were hard to do for him, but that to give some one something to eat if they were hungry was much easier because he did not have no temptation not to do it, so by doing it he believed that it was works by faith.

The bible says plainly that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but how many times have you ran across some one who you knew were the worst of the sinners that was even more willing to help some one than a more respectable person.

I do not know how to put it all together but i believe we are all different and we do not all have the same if any gifts.

If we are believers God is here with us.

What James is saying in 2:14 is that if it is a faith without works (works = a lifestyle of obedience to God), it is a DEAD faith—that is, it is not the true faith in Jesus Christ—it is faith in something or someone else, thus DEAD.

He is asking, the kind of faith that says, “I believe,” but has no works—can that faith save? Then he give an illustration, v. 15-16 to show that faith without works doesn’t save any more than it helps to tell a hungry person just to be filled.

In v. 20 he says faith without works (a righteous lifestyle) is useless.

In v. 21 he says that Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac. “Justify” means “to declare righteous,” “to show to be righteous.” In this context it means “to show to be righteous.” In other words, Abraham was SHOWN TO BE Righteous when he offered up Isaac, Gen. 22. He had already been DECLARED righteous in Gen. 15:6, when he believed.

I also agree with James who said that faith and works are both necessary.

Then you disagree with JESUS; Who said they weren't!

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

BTW; James never said what you claimed he did.

James did not say 'follow the ten commandments and all the law and the prophets or your salvation will be cancelled'.

Yet that is precisely what Mormonism teaches!

THIS is precisely what Mormonism teaches!

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

We understood.

After all; we are fairly fluent in the Restonian language.

Would you care to elaborate?

...in smaller letters?

Just quickly glancing at your large print, #11 is in error.

True believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are not told that we worship the Almighty according to the dictates of our own conscience—we are to worship Him as He has told us to in His Word. We are to worship Him in truth and in Spirit.

Our worship is composed of continually magnifying His name by living our lives according to His Word in the power of His Holy Spirit. That means we obey His Word, by the grace of God, in the power of His Spirit. For instance we do not practice the things listed in Galatians 5:19-21, but we do practice the things listed in Galations 5:22-24.

When we commit sins (single acts of sin) we confess our sins, and He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). He is our Advocate with the Father and the propitiation for our sins.

[MHGinTN] . You stop striving and trust Jesus to be at that instant your Redeemer,

[Stourme]

This doctrine of instant salvation is ridiculous when it's compared to whole of the new testament.

Having the Holy Ghost in you is not an indication of salvation. It's a start. It is not the final event.

What the Lord is teaching is a guiding principle. It's not a simple summation like 1 + 1 = 2. It's a course navigation.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The doctrine of instant salvation ignores all the scriptures that show in quite plain text that there are qualifications for salvation beyond just believing. It's the pattern of God. Noah was not saved from the flood by just believing. Moses didn't lead the Israelites to freedom just by believing. The Israelites weren't cured and healed by just believing.

James himself says:

The first mark of a man made gospel is one that doesn't require constant prayer to our Father in Heaven. They say "believe our interpretation of the Bible because we say so."

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

We are saved by the grace of Christ. Christ has put qualifications on who will receive that grace.

Anyone that doesn't teach what James and John taught are teaching false doctrine.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Stourme, do you really believe by the flesh you can add to what was so precious that it required Jesus to die on a Roman cross and rise again to be brought to fulfillment? Do you really believe the Cross plus? ... Then the Lord rebuke you, because you are trying to squelch the Gospel of Grace and replace it with the works of the flesh as taught by Mormonism.

You asserted: "Having the Holy Ghost in you is not an indication of salvation. It's a start." Stourme, that is satan speaking through you. You have denied the Holy Spirit with that assertion, for you have denigrated His power to be insufficient for your salvation. Do you know the end of one who does that, Stourme. That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Do you not understand what having God's Spirit in you means? Have you no knowledge of the Mercy Seat, the sprinkling of innocent blood, the rending of the veil from top to bottom, the office of the living forever more High Priest, Jesus Christ? Is you need to exalt yourself so great that you will even blaspheme the Holy Spirit to support your ego? ... The Lord rebuke you. May God have mercy upon your darkened spirit.

placemarker

“We are saved by the grace of Christ. Christ has put qualifications on who will receive that grace.”

Yes, HE came to die for the UNGODLY! Not the “worthy”. Any other supposed qualification comes from cultic heresy. If you
are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

“For while we were still HELPLESS, at the right time Christ died for the UNGODLY.”
(romans 5:6)

“Anyone that doesn’t teach what James and John taught are teaching false doctrine.”

Anyone who distorts what the Bible, as you have in your post, is worthy of condemnation.

ampu

Revelation 20:12 is a scene of what comes for those who are not previously caught up together with Jesus in the clouds. Have you not read IThessalonians4 and in Corinthians? The dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them. These whom Jesus comes to be with Him are not int he scene in Rev 20:12. You really don't want to be in that groupd, Stourme. You're not righteous enough to get a good report.

IThessalonians4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[See Deut 30:4]

[MHGinTN]

Revelation 20:12 is a scene of what comes for those who are not previously caught up together with Jesus in the clouds. Have you not read IThessalonians4 and in Corinthians? The dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them. These whom Jesus comes to be with Him are not int he scene in Rev 20:12. You really don't want to be in that groupd, Stourme. You're not righteous enough to get a good report.

[Stourme]

Since when did you become Jesus? I know you pronunce yourself saved...do you now think you have the power to judge others too? Wow some ego ya got there.

I guess I understand what James said now:

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Your assessment of Rev 20 is wrong. John is using symbology to show that all men will be judged. The first resurrection will happen when Christ returns. The second some time after and then the third. But all men, good or evil will stand before Christ. Rev 20 refers to the final judgement. This happens a thousand years after the return of Christ. Dying at sea has no significance other than to show that no one will be forgotten in the resurrection and the judgement.

Since you tried to change the subject... let me restate my point...

The first mark of a man made gospel is one that doesn't require constant prayer to our Father in Heaven. They say "believe our interpretation of the Bible because we say so."

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

We are saved by the grace of Christ. Christ has put qualifications on who will receive that grace.

Anyone that doesn't teach what James and John taught are teaching false doctrine.

James says that if we don't have works our faith is dead, works are as necessary to be judged as having faith at the final judgement. It's hard hearted people that know this, but refuse to accept it by choice. Only the humble will receive the grace of Christ.

The Lord rebuke you. I am instructed to judge according to your words. Didn't you know? But I cannot and will not declare your final destiny, for that is in God's providence. But know this, Stourme, if you persist in blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the Bible is VERY clear as to the destiny of such an one.

You might also like to consult with restornu if and when she looks up what strawman and red herring mean. You seem to have the same disease:

"Since when did you become Jesus? I know you pronunce yourself saved...do you now think you have the power to judge others too? Wow some ego ya got there."_Stourme

I am saved because I believe the Promises of The Almighty, not because of works which I have done or will do. You would do well to try it, believe God's Promise of the Grace of God in Christ Jesus. Today is the day and this is the hour. God will not always strive with you to reach you. If you feel there is some condemnation, it is not MHG who is in your heart sending that message. Guess Who loves you, Stourme; He wants you to be saved this hour, not work to earn that which you can never achieve.

"Only the humble ~~will~~ receive the grace of Christ."_Stourme ... There, that's more New Testament with the will marked out.

BTW, Stourme, when you have done all that you can do--like this hour you have to have achieved it, because you know not what the next minute or hour or day brings--will you offer that to God as Cain did, expecting to be acceptable on your merit?

Do you think God winks now at your pride of self, your clever turn of phrase, or your twisting of His Word to suit your cult's teaching? Do you even comprehend what Grace is? ... That's why I say you can't gain a good enough report, Stourme. The righteousness of God is His minimal requirement to enter into His presence, and only Jesus has achieved that because His seed remained within Him, His Holy Spirit.

As I believe the promises of God and am faithing in His integrity, I have in very small but sufficient portion That Righteousness of Christ, because my life is hid with Christ and He lives in me. He can and will live in you, if you will stop striving long enough to put your trust in Him and receive His Salvation. Here's a little story to help illustrate the process:

A mother had a little boy who was being a very naughty, unruly, rebellious child. All day long she asked for his assistance which he would not give. She asked him to help her sort the clothes for washing. She asked him to help clear the breakfast dishes. She asked him to carry the trash out to the rubbish bin. She asked him to pick up his cluttered room so she could vacuum it.
Every time this little tyrant said no and stomped away, he would catch a glimpse of how sad he was making his mother. Finally, he relented because of his love for his mother's cooking and story reading which came again to mind when by himself in his room.
The little boy went to his mother and said, "I'm sorry, Mommy. Please forgive me. Don't stop loving me." His mother stopped what she was doing and right then turned to embrace him with love and a warm hug. Then she held him at arms length and declared, "I forgive you sweetheart. I love you. ... Now, you can take out the trash, pick up your cluttered room, and help me sort the laundry from the dryer."

“James says that if we don’t have works our faith is dead, works are as necessary to be judged as having faith at the final judgement. It’s hard hearted people that know this, but refuse to accept it by choice”

It is amazing you can read a verse and still get it wrong -
or maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.

We are justified by faith alone (made righteous in the eyes
of God by faith). However, James writes that faith, if it
is true faith and not mere mental ascent (like demons
have), will result in good deeds.

[Stourme]“We are saved by the grace of Christ. Christ has put qualifications on who will receive that grace.”
[aMorePerfectUnion] Yes, HE came to die for the UNGODLY! Not the “worthy”. Any other supposed qualification comes from cultic heresy. If you
are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

The premise of this statement is foolish and wrong on many levels. But I doubt any of the so called "christians" will raise up to correct you.

1 Corinthians 15:21 - 22

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Christ came for everyone and invites all men to follow him. There can be NO GODLY people with out the atonement of Christ. Jesus Christ paid the price for sin for all those who would follow Him.

[aMorePerfectUnion] If you are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

Utterly devoid of truth.

Well?? Anyone else want to jump on this bandwagon? Christ's death is not for the ungodly...who else is going to stand up and denounce this?

Well??