Posted on 11/11/2010 3:35:15 PM PST by wmfights
Does the Rapture mark the beginning of the Tribulation? No, the Bible does not state anywhere that the Tribulation begins with the Rapture. I believe the Rapture could occur months or even years before the Tribulation begins, although it is likely to occur near the beginning because the Tribulation is the time of the pouring out of God's wrath, and 1 Thessalonians 1:10 says that Jesus will "deliver" His Church "from the wrath to come."
Another reason for believing the Rapture is likely to occur near the beginning of the Tribulation is because 2 Thessalonians 2 says that the Antichrist cannot be revealed until a "restrainer" is "taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7). I believe that restrainer is the Holy Spirit working through the Church. Thus, when the Church is removed, the Antichrist will be unleashed, and the Tribulation will begin.
The prophet Daniel indicates that the starting point of the Tribulation will be a "covenant" that the Antichrist will arrange for Israel that will evidently guarantee the nation's peace and enable the Jews to rebuild their Temple (Daniel 9:27).
(Excerpt) Read more at rapturealert.com ...
There really is no purpose for the Church to be present during the Tribulation. It is a time of the pouring out of God's wrath upon those who have rejected His grace, love and mercy. There are some who argue that the Church must be "purged" during the Tribulation to purify it. But to me, this idea is absurd. The blood of Jesus is sufficient to cleanse us of all our sins. That is an accomplished fact for those who have put their faith in Jesus (Ephesians 5:26-27). Furthermore, the concept of purging the Church during the Tribulation converts the whole period into a Protestant version of purgatory. It also violates the wedding imagery that the Bible uses to describe the relationship between Christ and His Church. Jesus is not going to beat up His Bride for seven years and then marry her!
Baptist ping
With great trepidation I'll point out that this particular claim isn't biblical. Although I'm certain to regret bothering to point that out.
God’s mysteries are just that... HIS mysteries... far beyond our mortal minds understanding... a line from that old song “Trust and obey, for there is no other way, to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey”......
Revelation before 4:1, and after 4:1 is a good clue, however.
Scripture doesn't state the word "rapture" either, or the word "trinity." Understanding God's Word doesn't come by human effort but by the Holy Spirit who wrote it. 1 Pet 1:20.
Another bit of evidence that the Church is not present during the Tribulation is the fact that the Great Commission, which Jesus gave to the Church, is no longer being carried out by the Church during the Tribulation but has been handed over to angels and the 144,000 Jews who have received Christ as Savior and have been sealed.
And we are beginning to see the signs of the Tribulation happening right now and all at the same time which means we are going home soon!
Why do you say that?
I agree. And we need to be working in the vineyard when the Bridegromm comes for His Bride. There are still lost souls to save.
Amen
I don't disagree that there will be a pre-Tribulation Rapture, but wouldn't the starting point be the 7 year Covenant with Israel?
True enough, as far as the Old Testament goes. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of Christians stop. They've stopped short of what is declared in the New Testament, which is the Old Testament revealed.
But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him. But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit... 1 Corinthians 2:9-10
The 2 words in Greek:
Tribulation - thlipsis
Wrath - orge
The bible uses different words for tribulation and wrath...to revise the meanings of the words to make them the same is inaccurate and dangerous.
As Christians we are promised we will have tribulation (john 16:33 for example). What we are told we will be spared is God's wrath.
Concur.
The Great Tribulation is associated with the consequences of Israel placing faith in the AntiChrist, prior to God, for their provision.
The Church, a different group, is simply the body of Christ, the group of believers in Christ at that time.
There will be a Great Apostasy or Falling Away.
There will be a removal of the Restrainer. Association of the Restrainer with God the Holy Spirit is made in many eschatologies, one with which I find through faith in Christ is a good understanding.
Just because the Holy Spirit indwelling man in this time ceases, doesn’t mean there aren’t new believers in the Great Tribulation.
It also is very appropriate to associate the Groom returning for His bride is associated with the Rapture, a time only known by God the Father, as opposed to the bride being beaten in the Tribulation prior to the wedding feast.
As sure as the sun comes tomorrow, every time the subject of the pre-trib Rapture comes up, we here from those who either say there is no Rapture, and from those who strongly feel the Rapture occurs at some other point of time in human events. As for me I firmly believe the Rapture occurs at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
My reasons:
I don’t know how many Christians would be caught up, but for arguments sake, let’s say 800 Million. Can you imagine the Global chaos and panic? Planes drop from the sky. Freeways clogged with accidents. Classrooms with missing students, and Hospitals busting at the seams with injured people, but many Doctors and staff are part of the missing or dead.
Only a chaos like that could usher in the rest of the end-time events so quickly. Like acceptance of a global leader that will rise up, and a global currency or Mark.
As a young Christian in the 1970’s I got caught up on reading all of those end-times books in the Bible Book stores. The book captivating me the most, being Hal Lindsey’s book “The late great Planet Earth”. The books were fascinating at the time, I could hardly put them down - but the prophecies seemed so far out into the future I could hardly believe it all could go down in my life time.
We have come a long way since Hal Lindsey’s book. Things are moving way too fast not to see that something has been set in motion during this last year. I sincerely believe the World’s times clock is winding down to midnight.
CASHLESS SOCIETY?
Those end-time book writers said we would someday be able to purchase about anything with the swipe of the card, even a telephone call, the vending machine and a parking lot? A stretch in the 1970’s, but now I hardly ever carry cash or coin anymore. Other that the coffee kitty at work I can go weeks without coin or paper money. To be completely cut off from it would be no big deal. As long as the card scanner worked. Oh and did I mention you could use the card all over the World? How possible was that in 1972? Now we are having China, the EU, and others saying we need to move to a global currency, and now for the first time ever – we are listening. Which brings me to the next topic.
ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT?
We have come along way on this one since Hal Lindsey’s book, haven’t we? Hard to visualize in the 1970’s. Now, its something even the main stream media is picking up on. We can now communicate at the speed of light anywhere we want because of the World Wide Web and satellite communication.
ONE WORLD LEADER / ANTICHRIST?
In 1972 when I first read Hal Lindsey’s book “The late great Planet Earth”, It was a great mystery to me how one man could enter the World stage and become so popular in such a short amount of time, and how this popularity will cross borders of all Nations. After all he will only have 3 1/2 years to position himself for the abomination of desecration to take place. Not saying Obama is the One, because I don’t think he is. The real AC will not need a teleprompter. But Obama did come out of nowhere in just a few months to become almost a Godhead to millions of his followers who did not even know who he was prior to that speech at the 2004 convention. I can say now, that this mystery has been solved. I think the real antichrist is waiting just off stage, and Obama has shown us all how fast this sort of event can take place.
In this passage Jesus is speaking of the world we live in now.
This view opened up the book The Revelation of Jesus Christ like never before.
What a great example of how quickly and easily people in mass can be drawn to a charismatic personality. Just imagine when that type of person has the "great deceiver" behind him.
We don't know the timing, but it does seem close sometimes. I know when I think about it I'm more motivated to witness to friends who don't know the Lord.
The Protestant notion that the rapture is an event in which God takes a select group of faithful Christians out of the world before the tribulation contradicts Sacred Scripture. St. Paul tells us in 1 Thess 4:15-17:
“For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
Since this passage is a part of Sacred Scripture, the idea of a rapture cannot be dismissed as being non-existent. However, the exact meaning of this passage and of “shall be caught up together ... to meet the Lord in the air” must be carefully considered. The phrase “shall be caught up together,” in the Latin is “simul rapiemur.” The word ‘rapture’ comes from the Latin of this passage. The root verb ‘rapio’ refers to carrying something away quickly.
Paul states that “the dead in Christ will rise first,” and that those “who are left ... shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.” Since the dead rise first, the rapture occurs at the time of the Resurrection and since those who are left do not precede the dead who rise, the rapture cannot occur before the tribulation, nor anytime before the Resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NASV)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
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We are to be comforted that our loved ones who have passed away are going to be resurrected before we who are alive and we will rise to be with them. Yes?
Then, Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
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If, as I was taught, Jesus returns before the tribulation, raising the dead in Christ first, then the living Church rises to meet Him, to watch the fireworks, how can this be the first resurrection if Revelation specifically states the first resurrection is AFTER the tribulation?
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