The Mystery of the Rapture

RaptureAlert.com ^ | Dr. David R. Reagan

[aruanan]

There is no such thing as a rapture of believers, if there was it would be in the Tanakh (OT).

Something like that did happen at least once in the OT.

[boatbums]

Not one thing in your post that I disagree with. Another thing about the buying/selling and the “Mark of the Beast” is the idea of microchips. They are already being implanted in pets. This way, we don’t even need to carry a debit card and it cannot be stolen if it is implanted. This could very well be the way that those who are not in submission to the AC can be denied the basic necessities.

[Salvation]

Thanks for the recommendation — I’ll ask about that book. Going to pick up a book over the weekend at the local Catholic bookstore.

[abigail2]

Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson is going to discuss the rapture on his show in the morning 6-9 PST or 9-12 EST, HERE

Actually I think they will be discussing it in the 3rd hour. You can call in with your input 888 n775-3773

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Good post, thanks.

Here's a related thread: The Rapture Trap: A Catholic View

[Salvation]

Even today's Gospel addresses the end of the world!

Lk 17:20-25

Gospel

Asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come,
Jesus said in reply,
“The coming of the Kingdom of God cannot be observed,
and no one will announce, ‘Look, here it is,’ or, ‘There it is.’
For behold, the Kingdom of God is among you.”

Then he said to his disciples,
“The days will come when you will long to see
one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.
There will be those who will say to you,
‘Look, there he is,’ or ‘Look, here he is.’
Do not go off, do not run in pursuit.
For just as lightning flashes
and lights up the sky from one side to the other,
so will the Son of Man be in his day.
But first he must suffer greatly and be rejected by this generation.”

[huldah1776]

“The first great resurrection of the Church will occur at the time of the rapture.”

“Another great resurrection will occur when Christ returns to earth (His Second Coming) at the end of the Tribulation period.”

Why does the Bible call the resurrection at the end of the Tribulation, the First resurrection? Why the word “first”?

**********************
Then, Revelation 20:4-6

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

*************************

[Lee N. Field]

n one of the Sunday School rooms at church there's a chart, published by Answers In Genesis, on the genealogy of Christ. It goes from Adam to David and then splits. One line is taken to Joseph. One to Mary. Every time I see it I want to say "But that's not what the text says!"

Curious but I think the explanation is that in Matthew's genealogy you have Joseph's line, but in Luke you have Mary's.

I'm aware of that, and that is an explanation that goes way, way back.

My point in bringing that particular chart up, is as an example of confusing one's own interpretation with what the text actually says. As is the quoted text that started this thread. Everyone does it to some extent, but it seems particularly difficult to pry your average pop endtimes pundit, and his followers, from his "prophecy resources" and look at what the text actually says.

[Just mythoughts]

Obviously Christ knew what Daniel penned as He Christ quotes Daniel when giving the 'signs' as to what would be to His coming and the end of this age. Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

For example Matthew 24:21 Christ quotes Daniel 12:1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

So what exactly is this tribulation that has never ever happened since the beginning of the world?

Then Christ says Matthew 24:22 And except those days (Daniels prophetic days, that 7 years 'you know') be shortened, there should no 'flesh' be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then Christ tells what the tribulation is about 'religious deception', as in verse 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there;' believe it not.

24 For there shall rise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;

insomuch that, IF it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, He is in the desert;' go not forth: 'behold, He is in the secret chambers;' believe it NOT.

Paul says in Ephesians 6 that we are to put on the whole armour of God that we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,

that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Now if the Church was going to get spirited out of here as some claim why would Paul bother to instruct us what to do to be prepared to stand in that 'evil' day.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

That the tribulation will fall upon Christians is predicted in Revelation 13:7: "And it was given unto him [the beast] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them..." Therefore, the saints will gather into areas of safety where they can survive the tribulation and prepare for the return of Christ, Who will confront those supposed to be doing His work on Earth, Who will be in the midst of His people, and Who will receive them into the cloud after the resurrection of the Dead in Him. The rapture is at the end of great tribulations, prior to the destruction of the wicked.

Since the resurrection of the dead in Christ must occur prior to the rapture of living saints, until we see the dead in Christ resurrected, the rapture cannot occur.

Your arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture are wishful thinking with no sound scriptural basis. It is a doctrine for the spiritually lazy who are more concerned about personal salvation than serving the holy purposes of God out of loyalty to that salvation. When tribulations increase, Christians will be courageously fulfilling God's holy purposes instead of selfishly doing nothing because Christ has done all that is necessary for their salvation. But if the joy of personal salvation does not lead to manifesting the fruits of the Spirit though noble actions striving to advance God's holy purposes, it is a selfish joy, and a dangerous one.

Great post!

[Jaded]

The Great Tribulation by Pastor David Chilton. Completely different view from a Calvinist Pastor.

[aruanan]

cite a clown named Grant Jeffries who misrepresents scholarly work on the Byzantine apocalyptic tradition in order to pimp his own rapture ride

The name of the guy misrepresenting Alexander's research (The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition) is Grant Jeffrey, not Jeffries.

[Iscool]

One of the problems with this line of thinking is that it if it is wrong, it is disasterously wrong. That is, if someone believes that the Antichrist cannot be unleashed until the Church is removed, it could lead to someone taking the mark of the beast because one believes that the beast could not exist before the church is removed. But taking the mark leads to drinking "the wrath of God" (Revelation 14:9-10).

Yours is the line of thinking that is disasterously wrong...It will lead people to believe that they can reject Christianity until they see the anti-Christ...

But the scriptures tell us another story...

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If you live to the Tribulation, you will have no chance to accept Jesus Christ as your savior after it starts...

That the tribulation will fall upon Christians is predicted in Revelation 13:7: "And it was given unto him [the beast] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them..."

Therefore, the saints will gather into areas of safety where they can survive the tribulation and prepare for the return of Christ, Who will confront those supposed to be doing His work on Earth, Who will be in the midst of His people, and Who will receive them into the cloud after the resurrection of the Dead in Him. The rapture is at the end of great tribulations, prior to the destruction of the wicked.

You are contradicting yourself...

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

You claim the saints will be hidden away safely but the scripture tells us that the anti-Christ makes war with them and overcomes them...

Then you say that Jesus will be in the midst of those who are waiting for His return...

It's easy to come to your own conclusions about the scripture when you add or subtract from the scriptures...

The fact is; those saints in Rev. 13:7 are not part of the church...The church is in heaven at Rev. 13...Saint does not automatically mean church, any more than baptism means water...

Since the resurrection of the dead in Christ must occur prior to the rapture of living saints, until we see the dead in Christ resurrected, the rapture cannot occur.

You are not going to see anything, unless you have bionic retinas...

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Before a living Christian realizes what's going on, he/she'll be half way thru the Milky Way...And then the afterburners will kick in while we pass thru the sea...

Your arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture are wishful thinking with no sound scriptural basis.

That's a silly statement...Why do you suppose millions of 'bible believers' believe in this very thing??? They believe it because it's there in the scriptures...And it's clear if you don't change the words of scripture...

[Iscool]

Now if the Church was going to get spirited out of here as some claim why would Paul bother to instruct us what to do to be prepared to stand in that 'evil' day.

The verse doesn't say 'that' evil day...It says 'the' evil day...Looking at the context and the rest of scripture, I don't see where 'the evil day' is the day when Jesus returns, or the Tribulation...

I go thru a lot of days that are evil, or would be evil had I not had access to the armor of God...And then;

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Concerning that same evil day, or days, Paul is praying that God will give him the words to say and the strength to be bold in the Gospel...Did Paul plan on being there on the day of Jesus' Second coming??? From the other scriptures, I don't believe he did...

[Iscool]

Why does the Bible call the resurrection at the end of the Tribulation, the First resurrection? Why the word “first”?

Because there are 3 parts to the first Resurrection...The firstfruits, the harvest, and the gleanings...

[Iscool]

Lk 17:20-25

Gospel

Asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, Jesus said in reply,
“The coming of the Kingdom of God cannot be observed, and no one will announce, ‘Look, here it is,’ or, ‘There it is.’
For behold, the Kingdom of God is among you.”

For what reason do you misquote scripture???

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

You can not see the Kingdom of God, or any part of it...Your religion is NOT the Kingdom of God...The Kingdom of God is invisible...

The Kingdom of God is the Holy Spirit within you...

[smvoice]

AMEN, Iscool.

The dispensation of the grace of God had a definite beginning, when Paul was saved and given this ministry by direct revelations of the risen Jesus Christ. THis is what Romans through Philemon is all about. The one new man, where there is neither Jew nor Greek, but a NEW creation. It is the Church the Body of Christ, made up of those believers who have accepted the free gift of God as their salvation, by grace through faith. WHen this Body of believers is complete, Christ will return IN THE AIR to gather them to Himself. This whole period, from Paul to the last member of the Body, is called by Paul a MYSTERY, hid in God from the foundation of the world. Eph. 3:2,3,5,6,9. God is reconciling the world unto Himself at this time.

When this dispensation ends, we, "who now letteth will let", the ONE NEW MAN, THE CHURCH THE BODY OF CHRIST, will be taken out of the way (raptured), and the man of sin will then be revealed. 2 Thess. 2:3-12. Notice that verse 7 says "HE" who now letteth..." Notice also that we are called the one new MAN (masculine) and The BODY of CHRIST (masculine).

[huldah1776]

Okay.

[Iscool]

A) Israel is not going to believe in an Anti-Christ or false messiah, that should be obvious by now, we didnt accept the man from Nazareth. B) There is no such thing as a rapture of believers, if there was it would be in the Tanakh (OT).

There is not much room in the OT scheme of things for Gentiles in general either...

I don't know that a Christian can explain things to one who adheres to the Jewish OT religion that would make sense to you guys...

We do believe the NT...Why we believe it is a big mystery to some while others have their own opinions...I personally believe the NT because I am convinced the Holy Spirit has led me to do so...

And, the NT explains why you don't accept the NT...That is because you rejected the Messiah the first time around and the Lord put blinders on you guys, temporarily, to lead you to jealousy...

Of course that would be hogwash to you but I don't have any other explanation why you reject the NT...

AS a result, I am not against your religion, but I support it...God isn't done with you guys...

As far as the rapture in the OT, I see the crossing of the Red Sea as a type of the Rapture...I see a lot of things in the OT that represent the Rapture of God's people...

[Iscool]

Exactly...