Posted on 11/11/2010 3:35:15 PM PST by wmfights
If this is understood, the "time" of the rapture becomes clear. Just as the reason for the rapture becomes clear.
Daniel 9:24-27 is more scriptural evidence that this seven-year period is divided up into two parts (indicated by "the midst of the week" Dan 9:27) what Jesus called "the beginning of sorrows" Matt. 24:8 and "the end" Matt. 24:14. This seven-year period is spliced by Matt. 24:15, "the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place" & what Daniel describes in 9:27.
The second 3½ years, "the Great Tribulation" of "God's wrath poured out without mixture” (no mercy - no one gets saved) is a truly horrific time that is basically unimaginable. But the first 3½ years is no picnic either. From Revelation 6:1 to 11:14 (the first 3½ years), half the world is killed. The rest of the world dies in the second 3½ years except for a handful of Israelites hiding in the mountains (probably Petra).
May God shine brightly through us in the meantime that as many who will, be saved.
The prophet Daniel indicates that the starting point of the Tribulation will be a "covenant" that the Antichrist will arrange for Israel that will evidently guarantee the nation's peace and enable the Jews to rebuild their Temple (Daniel 9:27).
In one of the Sunday School rooms at church there's a chart, published by Answers In Genesis, on the genealogy of Christ. It goes from Adam to David and then splits. One line is taken to Joseph. One to Mary.
Every time I see it I want to say "But that's not what the text says!"
Likewise, here.
“With great trepidation I’ll point out that this particular claim isn’t biblical. Although I’m certain to regret bothering to point that out.”
Okay, I’ll bite.
Which claim are you referring to?
In you answer,be sure to indicate Scripture to support it.
What do you think will happen?
We are very close to a one world order, with a society built upon one currency. The currency is here already, it is called the dollar. The order will be set up quite quickly. The reason that the man that will be seen as the Savior is because he will say he is The savior. He will fulfill the requisites of being Jesus, the Mahdi and the one the Hebrews have been waiting for.
Perhaps you didn’t know that Christ died for Gentiles and Jews. Heaven is open to BOTH that accept Him. So why are you restricting His wrath to Israel.
“The Great Tribulation is associated with the consequences of Israel placing faith in the AntiChrist, prior to God, for their provision.”
Don’t you think God is going to be pissed at others who defy Him etc.? Me thinks so ... .
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2625794/posts?page=2
Hmmmm ...
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
The dead rise first and then the living believers. I see no “Protestant contradiction” here. This will occur BEFORE the tribulation.
“Revelation specifically states the first resurrection is AFTER the tribulation?
“
Where does it say the first resurrectionis AFTER the tribulation? I have never heard of that before. Please state verses. TIA.
2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
I think it is pretty clear that the church will be with the Messiah in the spirit (air of 1st Thess) and that will be at the LAST TRUMP.
The world knows Obama is an incompetent idiot.
Obama just screwed up a trade deal BUSH HANDED TO HIM with Korea. The Koreans dissed him and went with the EU. Obama is worse than an empty suit.
I quoted the verses in my post.
I believe the trib starts formally with the signing of the 7 year treaty
Could I trouble you to copy/paste them here?
If not, so be it!
One of the problems with this line of thinking is that it if it is wrong, it is disasterously wrong. That is, if someone believes that the Antichrist cannot be unleashed until the Church is removed, it could lead to someone taking the mark of the beast because one believes that the beast could not exist before the church is removed. But taking the mark leads to drinking "the wrath of God" (Revelation 14:9-10).
That the tribulation will fall upon Christians is predicted in Revelation 13:7: "And it was given unto him [the beast] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them..." Therefore, the saints will gather into areas of safety where they can survive the tribulation and prepare for the return of Christ, Who will confront those supposed to be doing His work on Earth, Who will be in the midst of His people, and Who will receive them into the cloud after the resurrection of the Dead in Him. The rapture is at the end of great tribulations, prior to the destruction of the wicked.
Since the resurrection of the dead in Christ must occur prior to the rapture of living saints, until we see the dead in Christ resurrected, the rapture cannot occur.
Your arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture are wishful thinking with no sound scriptural basis. It is a doctrine for the spiritually lazy who are more concerned about personal salvation than serving the holy purposes of God out of loyalty to that salvation. When tribulations increase, Christians will be courageously fulfilling God's holy purposes instead of selfishly doing nothing because Christ has done all that is necessary for their salvation. But if the joy of personal salvation does not lead to manifesting the fruits of the Spirit though noble actions striving to advance God's holy purposes, it is a selfish joy, and a dangerous one. "Hey, don't worry about taking this mark, because the beast cannot exist prior to our rapture! Therefore, this mark, which will give us earthly benefits, cannot be the mark of the beast!"
My question was in regards to these verses specifically stating the timing of the First resurrection.
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Then, Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
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If someone can explain to me how the first resurrection as explained here, can be before the tribulation with the “rapture”, I would really appreciate it.
Don't have regrets. Support your point with data.
While I have come to the point of chuckling at many of the repetitious Religious Forum Pit Bull fights here on FR, I'm always interested in reasoned, thoughtful seeking of Truth in God's Word.
In contrast, God's wrath spoken of in the second 3 1/2 years ("the Great Tribulation") is declared in God's Word to be "without mixture” (Rev 14:10). What does that mean? It means wrath not mixed with mercy - no one get saved during this period.
The first great resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is documented in each of the four Gospels (Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20), cited several times in Acts (Acts 1:22; 2:31; 4:2, 33; 26:23), and mentioned repeatedly in the letters to the churches (Romans 1:4; Philippians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:3). Much is made of the importance of Christ’s resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:12-34, which records that over five hundred people saw Him at one of His post-resurrection appearances. Christ’s resurrection is the “first fruits” or guarantee to every Christian that he will also be resurrected. Christ’s resurrection is also the basis of the Christian’s certainty that all people who have died will one day be raised to face fair and even-handed judgment by Jesus Christ (Acts 17:30-31). The resurrection to eternal life is described as “the first resurrection” (Revelation 20:5-6); the resurrection to judgment and torment is described as “the second death” (Revelation 20:6, 13-15).
The first great resurrection of the Church will occur at the time of the rapture. All those who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ during the Church Age, and have died before Jesus returns, will be resurrected at the rapture. The Church Age began on the Day of Pentecost and will end when Christ returns to take believers back to heaven with Him (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). The Apostle Paul explained that not all Christians will die, but all will be changed, i.e., given resurrection-type bodies (1 Corinthians 15:50-58), some without having to die! Christians who are alive, and those who have already died, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and be with Him always!
Another great resurrection will occur when Christ returns to earth (His Second Coming) at the end of the Tribulation period. After the rapture, the Tribulation is the next event after the Church Age in God’s chronology. This will be a time of terrible judgment upon the world, described in great detail in Revelation chapters 6-18. Though all Church Age believers will be gone, millions of people left behind on earth will come to their senses during this time and will trust in Jesus as their Savior. Tragically, most of them will pay for their faith in Jesus by losing their lives (Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 13:7, 15-17; 17:6; 19:1-2). These believers in Jesus who die during the Tribulation will be resurrected at Christ’s return and will reign with Him for a thousand years during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4, 6). Old Testament believers such as Job, Noah, Abraham, David and even John the Baptist (who was assassinated before the Church began) will be resurrected at this time also. Several passages in the Old Testament mention this event (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:1-2; Hosea 13:14). Ezekiel 37:1-14 describes primarily the regathering of the Nation of Israel using the symbolism of dead corpses coming back to life. But from the language used, a physical resurrection of dead Israelis cannot be excluded from the passage. Again, all believers in God (in the Old Testament era) and all believers in Jesus (in the New Testament era) participate in the first resurrection, a resurrection to life (Revelation 20:4, 6).
There may be another resurrection at the end of the Millennium, one which is implied, but never explicitly stated in Scripture. It is possible that some believers will die a physical death during the Millennium. Through the prophet Isaiah, God said, "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his days; for the youth will die at the age of one hundred and the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed” (Isaiah 65:20). On the other hand, it is also possible that death in the Millennium will only come to the disobedient. In either event, some kind of transformation will be required to fit believers in their natural bodies in the Millennium for pristine existence throughout eternity. Each believer will need to have a “resurrected” type of body.
It is clear from Scripture that God will destroy the entire universe, including the earth, with fire (2 Peter 3:7-12). This will be necessary to purge God’s creation of its endemic evil and decay brought upon it by man’s sin. In its place God will create a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-4). But what will happen to those believers who survived the Tribulation and entered the Millennium in their natural bodies? And what will happen to those who were born during the Millennium, trusted in Jesus, and continued to live in their natural bodies? Paul has made it clear that flesh and blood, which is mortal and able to decay, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That eternal kingdom is inhabitable only by those with resurrected, glorified bodies that are no longer mortal and are not able to decay (1 Corinthians 15:35-49). Presumably, these believers will be given resurrection bodies without having to die. Precisely when this happens is not explained, but theologically, it must happen somewhere in the transition from the old earth and universe to the new earth and new heaven (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-4).
There is a final resurrection, apparently of all the unbelieving dead of all ages. Jesus Christ will raise them from the dead (John 5:25-29) after the Millennium, the thousand-year reign of Christ (Revelation 20:5), and after the destruction of the present earth and universe (2 Peter 3:7-12; Revelation 20:11). This is the resurrection described by Daniel as an awakening “from the dust of the ground ... to disgrace and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2). It is described by Jesus as a “resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).
The Apostle John saw something that would happen in the future. He saw a “great white throne” (Revelation 20:11). Heaven and earth “fled away” from the One sitting on it. This is evidently a description of the dissolution by fire of all matter, including the entire universe and earth itself (2 Peter 3:7-12). All the (godless) dead will stand before the throne. This means they have been resurrected after the thousand years (Revelation 20:5). They will possess bodies that can feel pain but will never cease to exist (Mark 9:43-48). They will be judged, and their punishment will be commensurate with their works. But there is another book opened—the Lamb’s book of life (Revelation 21:27). Those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the “lake of fire,” which amounts to “the second death” (Revelation 20:11-15). No indication is given of any who appear at this judgment that their names are found in the book of life. Rather, those whose names appear in the book of life were among those who are blessed, for they received forgiveness and partook of the first resurrection, the resurrection to life (Revelation 20:6).
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