The Three Legged Stool of Salvation

http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/ ^ | August 2010 | Gart O'toole

[Benchim]

The first Leg on the Stool is Belief in Christ. Belief means to steadfastly trust in the fact-- that Jesus is the Son of God. The Greek word is pistevo. "For God so greatly loved the world that He gave up His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

You will find nothing in the definition requiring "obedience" or "sinless" conduct .

[Benchim]

The institutional obfuscation of the meaning of Christ is apparent when the simplicity of salvation is revealed by the clear words of the Bible. The motivation for this obfuscation is insidious and real.But for the intellectually searching,it is clear as a bell. Did you know that Paul was a big sinner? Romans Chapter 7.

[RnMomof7]

Did you know that Paul was a big sinner? Romans Chapter 7.

Ahhh yes...but he hated his sin, he was not a slave to it,but a slave to Christ

Hating sin, and not looking for an excuse to enjoy it is a mark of salvation

[haole]

try reading further in John where Jesus says” he who believes in Me, does the will of the Father who sent Me”. or paul writes, “he who confesses Jesus with his lips, will be saved”., or Jesus to the man who asked how he can be saved: “You know the commandments: thou shalt not murder, thous shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt no bear false witness, thous shall not steal, thou shall not covet they neighbours wife? keep those and you will have ( eternal ) life”.
so on a cursory reading of the Bible, you are the one who does not believe in either Jesus nor the Bible.

[CynicalBear]

>> “You know the commandments: thou shalt not murder, thous shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt no bear false witness, thous shall not steal, thou shall not covet they neighbours wife? keep those and you will have ( eternal ) life”.<<

What is the book, chapter and verse of that quote?

[Benchim]

I believe in Jesus but the Bible is not to be worshiped. Jesus warned against worship of the scriptures. The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors. http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/

You will find nothing in the definition of salvation requiring “obedience” or “sinless” conduct .

[Lee N. Field]

The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors. http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/

And let me guess: The emperor Constantine is the big baddie here.

Where have you been taught?

[ScottfromNJ]

Romans 3:23

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”

[HarleyD]

The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors.

Then how do you know any of it is true? Which parts are you going to accept and which parts will you reject?

[Benchim]

What occurs in the study is that you cognitively know that something has happened. Those disciples and thousands of believers went to death with smiles on their faces. Jesus rose from the dead. Now is you go back and study that history (even though it is flawed) , the Holy Spirit directs you to truth. The truth is that God simply sacrificed His Son for my sins and yours too because we are all WRETCHED.

[Benchim]

Yes. but on the Cross we received imputed righteousness == it is called “atonement” or “propitiation”.
http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/

[circlecity]

"What is the book, chapter and verse of that quote?"

It is from the story of Jesus and the rich young ruler who asks what to do to follow him. It is in all three of the synoptics I believe. However, Jesus is just confronting a Jewish man with the law the man thinks makes him righteous but who Jesus unmaskes as a sinner when the young man can't bring himself to give up his money to the poor and follow Jesus. So, the passage not only illustrates the righteousness of the law but, also, man's inability to follow it. Left to himself man always chooses the world over the Spirit.

[MHGinTN]

When I read the story of the giving of the Law through Moses, I view the event as something of judgment not mercy. The Hebrew refugees were badgering to know what they could do to be worthy, to be 'good enough'.

Moses came down from the moutain with tablets defining God's nature as far as humans could comprehend it. God is not a man descended from Adam that He should murder, therefore 'Thou shalt not murder'. The ten commandments were a pretty good description of God's godliness and men descended from Adam did not have the spirit to be like that, like what the ten commandments describe in their totality. And the Hebrews immediately started whining for clarification, hence the other six hundred legalistic dictates in the book of the laws.

So for humankind to overcome the shortcoming of having inherited a sin nature from Adam, inherited a spirit which is called 'dead', it is necessary to be born again into God's nature, to be given an alive spirit through the earnest of our inheritance with the Holy Spirit into our human spirit. When one believes God, trusting that He sent His nature to be our 'soter' in the person of Jesus, we can have a new nature imparted to our dead spirit. Jesus explained it in total to Nicodemus in John chapter three.

[dangus]

Paul refers to himself as the greatest of sinners not because of the sins he was presently committing, but for his past sins; he was a murderer, who persecuted Christians for their faith. But his sinfulness he put behind him:

"Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar, have I offended in any thing." Acts 25:8

In fact, Paul was quite adamant that he kept the law:

"But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets" Acts 24:14

And he required it of his followers:

So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

This "proving their repentence" was absolutely vital, not just a side aspect to their faith. In fact, he taught his followers they must shun those who sinned.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." 1 Cor 5:11

He also plainly asserted that those who committed any of numerous grave sins would not enter Heaven:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," I Cor 6:9

"the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God." Rom 8:7-8

Paul specifically addresses the notion of lawlessness in several places:

"Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." - Hebrews 1:9 (If Paul is not the author of Hebrews, it is still biblical!)

In fact, the only reference to the anti-Christ is one who preaches lawlessness: Let no man deceive you by any means: yet there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, and the son of perdition; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity already is at work" 1 Thess 2:5-7 So how can we be saved? See, Christ conquers the law not by setting it aside, or by invalidating, but by forgiving us, he also salves us, so that we do not return to sinfulness:

Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows those that are his. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 1 Thess 2:19

[HarleyD]

What occurs in the study is that you cognitively know that something has happened.

So, basically, truth becomes what a person wants it to be. It's like Thomas Jefferson who when he didn't like something in scripture would cut the text out removing up to 10% of the scripture. If a person doesn't like a particular verse, or they think it's contradictory, then it is ignore rather then a person asking God for the wisdom to understand the text and studying to show thy self approved.

The fact is, while some versions are better than others, the scriptures are very simple to understand-all correct, true and holy. Man simply has warped and perverted the gospel with so much false doctrine that the scriptures become unintelligent. Rather than trying to straighten out their own doctrine, they would rather cut the bible to shreds. Claiming to be wise, they become fools.

[ScottfromNJ]

“The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors”

Yes, there are some translation errors from incorrect interpretations but the Bible’s hardly flawed. Remember there were different administrations with different sets of laws that don’t apply today. For example, man is now allowed one wife even though there were times early in the Old Testament where more than one was allowed. Understanding the different administrations explains the apparent contradictions.

[StonyBurk]

But IMO Belief is NOT an empty word -but by rightly dividing the word is a term that requires action If one obeys what they have heard-and faith comes by hearing the word of God—then one is obedient. If one rejects what they hear it is unbelief.And there can be no salvation.And again IMO If one
merely claims I believe-but does not hasten to add prayer Help Thou my unbelief.Then one is governed by the action of unbelief.

[ravenwolf]

Romans - Chapter 8

Rom 8:1
[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10
And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

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Read ch 7 and you can see that paul also struggles with sin, we all have different things that we consider sin, and most of our ideas of sin comes from our carnel minds and not from the spirit.

The point is, some one may say that if Christ was really in us we would not sin.

Then why did Paul go to all of that trouble writing Ch 8
and why would he admit that he was also a sinner in ch 7?

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We will be rid of sin only when we are Glorified.

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Romans ch 8
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

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If we have Christ, our sins will be buried with our dead bodies, our dead bodies will never raise again, but just our Spiritual bodies.

[ravenwolf]

“Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar, have I offended in any thing.” Acts 25:8

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Paul was not preaching to the Christians, he was defending himself against his accusers.

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5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

[dangus]

>> Paul was not preaching to the Christians, he was defending himself against his accusers. <<

Yes, but his testimony was truthful!

[dangus]

Your history is quite flawed. No book of the bible was written after the time of the disciples, who knew Jesus personally. There were many excellent Christian books written between the death of John (c.90) and 360, read throughout Christendom and upholding orthodox Christianity, but they were not included, for righteous as they were they were not apostolic (written under the authority, if not the hand, of the apostles), and so they were not regarded as scripture. To be redundant so as to be clear, I don’t mean the wicked anti-scriptures of the Gnostics, like “the Gospel of Judas;” I mean theologically correct, approved throughout pre-Nicene and Catholic-era history, and cherished by the saints.

For example, “the Passion of Saints Perpetua and Felicity” was perhaps the most popularly read book of the ancient world.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/perpetua.html

There germ of truth behind the notion that the bible was written 360 years after Christ lies only in the fact that there was no single, authoritative translation for 360 years. But this makes sense: the bible was a Greek book; only after Greek declined as the lingua franca, so to speak, did the need for an authoritative translation arrive.

“WHAT?” you ask. “The bible wasn’t Hebrew? Surely you only mean the New Testament!”

Remember what I said about the need for apostolic authorship? That applied to the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. And here is the reason why a lot of people believed (until historians proved them wrong) that the New Testament must have been written long after the apostles:

Before Christ, certain books of Hebrew literature were translated into Greek. This included not only the books the Saduccees considered to be Holy Scripture (the Torah), or the books the Pharisees considered to be Holy Scripture (the Torah and the Prophets), but many other, more recent scrolls, as well, collectively called the Khetuvim. They were these books that the disciples quoted, not the Hebrew books. Only AFTER Jesus did the Jews decide in unison which of the Khetuvim were considered holy scripture, and which weren’t. (This, then is the difference between Catholic and Protestant bibles: Catholics follow the apostles’ selections, whereas Protestants follow the Jews’ more limited selections.)

The amazing thing, though is that the New Testament cites the GREEK Old Testament; Even Jesus is quoted as speaking wordings unique to the Greek. This led many skeptics in the 19th century to assert that the bible wasn’t directly quoting Jesus, because they wondered why would a Hebrew cite the Greek bible when speaking to Hebrews, instead of citing the Hebrew bible. And certainly the authors of the New Testament must have been so far removed from Hebrew culture that they couldn’t even recognize the apparent mistake.

Since that time, however, researchers found the caves at Qumran, the so-called “Dead Sea Scrolls,” preserved from the 3rd century B.C. to the first century A.D. Astonishingly, the biblical scrolls they found agreed with the Apostolic citations. In some cases, the scrolls had been back-translated from the Greek into Hebrew! What’s more, it became evident that John, the author of four biblical books, as well as the first disciples, (including Peter, the first pope) came from a religious tradition very closely associated with the Qumran sect. Suddenly, it became apparent that the literature familiar to the apostles was not the “Masoretic text” read by the Jews, but the Greek scriptures (or at least Hebrew versions of the Greek scriptures), and that “Greek nature” of the bible was, in fact, evidence that it was written by first-centuries Jews.

By the way, even St. Jerome bought into the false belief that the Masoretic text was superior to the Greek text. For this reason, nearly all Catholics’ and Protestants’ Old Testaments are based on the Hebrew, even thought the apostles preferred the Greek. Thus, when Jesus quotes the Old Testament, you can be quite perplexed to find out how “badly” he “misquotes” the Old Testament.