Are You More Blessed Than the Virgin Mary?

Desiring God ^ | 12/15/2010 | Jonathan Parnell

[RnMomof7]

In the sermon descriptively entitled, “That Hearing and Keeping the Word of God Renders a Person More Blessed Than Any Other Privilege That Ever God Bestowed on Any of the Children of Men,” Jonathan Edwards writes: The hearing and keeping the word of God brings the happiness of a spiritual union and communion with God. ‘Tis a greater blessedness to have spiritual communion with God and to have a saving intercourse with him by the instances of his Spirit and by the exercise of true devotion than it is to converse with God externally, to see the visible representation and manifestations of his presence and glory, and to hear his voice with the bodily ears as Moses did. For in this spiritual intercourse the soul is nigh unto and hath more a particular portion than in any external intercourse. ‘Tis more blessed to be spiritually related to Jesus Christ—to be his disciples, his brethren and the members—than to stand in the nearest temporal relation, than to be his brother or his mother. Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus, ed. Nancy Guthrie, 57.

[bkaycee]

Indeed if the word “grace” were dropped and the simple term “favor” used it would make for much less confusion about what was being said. “Grace” is not some magical quality laid upon or changing a person but a receipt of God's favor, not at all mystical or complicated.

Exactly! Grace to a saved believer in Christ is very different than what is meant by a RC.

RC's think grace can be recieved in various quantities and each time its recieved it adds to the souls purification, until when one if "full of grace", the soul is then pleasing to God and can go directly to heaven, bypassing purgatory.

Sin reduces the level of grace in the soul and mortal sin destroys all grace in the soul. All excess "grace" that one "earns" can go into the treasury of merit, mixed in with the "grace" earned by Jesus, Mary, and the saints.

This "grace" is primarily replenished via the sacraments (part of the "fullness" prots lack).

[topcat54]

47 Then one said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You." 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." (Matthew 12)

This must have been viewed by Jesus’ mom as a real put down. After all, how could Jesus downplay the position of the “Queen of Heaven” this way?

[bkaycee]

Wonder how Rome translates Act 6:8

"6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people." I assume Rome does not believe Stephen was sinless from birth.

How bout Luke 7:28? I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

[Judith Anne]

The problem is 2 fold. 1st the natural man can not read the Bible with understanding .. and 2nd your church does not allow you to have any interpretation they do not give you...so basically the reading of the scriptures by "good Catholics " is like reading star wars..

How is a protestant not a "natural man"? And does your church allow you to have any interpretation they do not give you, for instance, a Catholic interpretation? If no other interpretation is allowed, say, Mormon, or Catholic, then your sect is no different than you accuse the Catholics of being.

[Judith Anne]

So what? Catholics use the Catholic bible. You use whatever one you want. What is the actual original word, and how exactly is it translated?

[Judith Anne]

The word “altars” is interesting. Don’t protestant churches have altars? Some I’ve been in, do...where the grape juice and crackers are set up before being passed out. So, what is the purpose of the altar? Nothing is sacrified on them, right?

Altars can be places of sacrifice, or places where religious ceremonies are performed, or both, or neither.

[RnMomof7]

Or, read Revelation.

Rev1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ..it does not reveal His mother in any way.. Revelation , like all of Scripture is about HIM

[RnMomof7]

Wow, I’ll say a rosary for you.

Did you understand what Edwards was saying?

On the Rosary ..do not waste your time and breath.. no one is listening to those prayers

[topcat54]

Yum, Quaking Puffs, there’s millions of Charismatic Catholics eating it for breakfast.

Not to mention the likes of Marco Rubio and Dinesh D’Souza.

[RnMomof7]

So what? Catholics use the Catholic bible. You use whatever one you want. What is the actual original word, and how exactly is it translated?

Doesn't that say anything to you? That only one translator read the word as full of grace and that generations of greek expert translators see it as most favored? Do you think maybe the doctrine is driving the translation rather than the scripture leading the doctrine??

What is grace to you Judith?

[topcat54]

"6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people." I assume Rome does not believe Stephen was sinless from birth.

Unfortunately, the correct translation of this verse is “full of faith (pistis) and power.” The word for grace (charis) is not found in the verse.

[Mr. K]

I think you guys should all have a rumble and the winner gets to decide once and for all whether Mary was an annointed one or full of grace or most favored nation... or whatever

Because that’s really really important to know

I mean how can I live if I find out that Mary is only ‘interceding’ on my behalf [with the big guy] from a less than holiest position than I thought she had...

So have at it- Is she or isnt she?

NEXT: God’s ‘Chosen People”’ - for real? or some kind hudzpah? - and if so, what did He choose them for?

[RnMomof7]

How is a protestant not a "natural man"? And does your church allow you to have any interpretation they do not give you, for instance, a Catholic interpretation? If no other interpretation is allowed, say, Mormon, or Catholic, then your sect is no different than you accuse the Catholics of being.

The scriptures tell us who the natural man is.. he is unregenerate, he is in the image of his father Adam.

1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Mr. K]

"...AND we are sealed unto the day of redemption. "

Oh hey! that's a good thing, huh? I guess better then being unsealed 'unto the day of redemption'

[Judith Anne]

You ignored my question: What is the word being translated, and what is the exact meaning? And no, your (plural) Catholic hating interpretation means nothing to me.

Will your (plural) churches allow you to interpret the Bible according to another church’s beliefs? Hmmmm....?

[RnMomof7]

I mean how can I live if I find out that Mary is only ‘interceding’ on my behalf [with the big guy] from a less than holiest position than I thought she had..

He is not "the big Guy"

He is King of kings and Lord of lords , the Mighty God, the Prince of Peace...some suggestions when speaking of My Savior..

Advocate (1 John 2:1) Almighty (Rev. 1:8; Mt. 28:18) Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8; 22:13) Amen (Rev. 3:14) Apostle of our Profession (Heb. 3:1) Atoning Sacrifice for our Sins (1 John 2:2) Author of Life (Acts 3:15) Author and Perfecter of our Faith (Heb. 12:2) Author of Salvation (Heb. 2:10)

Beginning and End (Rev. 22:13) Blessed and only Ruler (1 Tim. 6:15) Bread of God (John 6:33) Bread of Life (John 6:35; 6:48) Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15)

Capstone (Acts 4:11; 1 Pet. 2:7)

Chief Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20) Chief Shepherd (1 Pet. 5:4) Christ (1 John 2:22) Creator (John 1:3) Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)

Eternal Life (1 John 1:2; 5:20) Faithful and True (Rev. 19:11) Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5) Faithful and True Witness (Rev. 3:14) First and Last (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13) Firstborn From the Dead (Rev. 1:5) Firstborn over all creation (Col. 1:15)

Gate (John 10:9) God (John 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5; 2 Pet. 1:1;1 John 5:20; etc.) Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14) Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20) Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)

Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; 5:23) Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2) High Priest (Heb. 2:17) Holy and True (Rev. 3:7) Holy One (Acts 3:14) Hope (1 Tim. 1:1) Hope of Glory (Col. 1:27) Horn of Salvation (Luke 1:69)

I Am (John 8:58) Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4) Immanuel (Mt. 1:23)

Judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42) King Eternal (1 Tim. 1:17) King of Israel (John 1:49) King of the Jews (Mt. 27:11) King of kings (1 Tim 6:15; Rev. 19:16) King of the Ages (Rev. 15:3)

Lamb (Rev. 13:8) Lamb of God (John 1:29) Lamb Without Blemish (1 Pet. 1:19) Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45) Life (John 14:6; Col. 3:4) Light of the World (John 8:12) Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5) Living One (Rev. 1:18) Living Stone (1 Pet. 2:4) Lord (2 Pet. 2:20) Lord of All (Acts 10:36) Lord of Glory (1 Cor. 2:8) Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16)

Man from Heaven (1 Cor. 15:48) Master (Lk. 5:5; 8:24; 9:33) Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15) Mighty God (Isa. 9:6) Morning Star (Rev. 22:16)

Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16) Only Begotten Son of God (John 1:18; 1 John 4:9) Our Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13) Our Holiness (1 Cor. 1:30) Our Husband (2 Cor. 11:2) Our Peace (Eph 2:14) Our Protection (2 Thess. 3:3) Our Redemption (1 Cor. 1:30) Our Righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30) Our Sacrificed Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7)

Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24) Precious Cornerstone (1 Pet. 2:6) Prophet (Acts 3:22)

Rabbi (Mt. 26:25) Resurrection and Life (John 11:25) Righteous Branch (Jer. 23:5) Righteous One (Acts 7:52; 1 John 2:1) Rock (1 Cor. 10:4) Root of David (Rev. 5:5; 22:16) Ruler of God’s Creation (Rev. 3:14) Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (Rev. 1:5)

Savior (Eph. 5:23; Titus 1:4; 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:20) Son of David (Lk. 18:39) Son of God (John 1:49; Heb. 4:14) Son of Man (Mt. 8:20) Son of the Most High God (Lk. 1:32) Source of Eternal Salvation for all who obey him (Heb. 5:9)

The One Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5) The Stone the builders rejected (Acts 4:11) The Teacher (John 11:28, NIV) True Bread (John 6:32) True Light (John 1:9) True Vine (John 15:1) Truth (John 1:14; 14:6)

Way (John 14:6) Wisdom of God (1 Cor. 1:24) Word (John 1:1) Word of God (Rev. 19:13)

Please honor God and Christ by the use of His proper titles.. He is not the landlord or bartender..

"You shall not take The Name of The Lord your God in vain; for The Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His Name in vain."

This is a command to HONOR His name ...and use it with care and respect

Would you call Mary the housekeeper..I think not ..

[RnMomof7]

The angel saluted Mary by calling her kecharitomene, which Jerome quite accurately translated as gratia plena, "full of grace". (kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace".)Kecharitomene means "already completely graced as an accomplished fact".

Original Word: χαριτόω
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: favor highly

rd Origin from charis
Definition
to make graceful, endow with grace NASB Word Usage
favored (1), freely bestowed (1).

Luke 1:28 καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. Having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, you highly favored one! The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women!"
Verb: Perfect Passive Participle Vocative Singular Feminine

Literal greek translation

Young's Literal Translation And the messenger having come in unto her, said, 'Hail, favoured one, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women;'

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

plērēs=full
charis= grace

John 1:14 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.

And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth

[Judith Anne]

The angel saluted Mary by calling her kecharitomene, which Jerome quite accurately translated as gratia plena, "full of grace". (kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace".)Kecharitomene means "already completely graced as an accomplished fact".

Beautifully said. Still no definition of the word "grace."

[count-your-change]

Particularly so since we don’t use “grace” in an archaic meaning today. It’s a bit like using “villain” to refer a person who lives in a villa.

[RnMomof7]

Mary spent the “talent” of her life in obedience to God.

How do you know that ?

The scriptures introduce her as a teenager, we know nothing of her before that

She said ‘yes’ to God and lived that ‘yes’ through to the end of her days -

What was the question she said yes to?

we see her in Acts and the Gospels right there from the Annunciation to the Visitation to her son's side at the crucifixion to her presence in the company of the Apostles in the early church and at Pentecost.

Actually scripture tells us very little of her.. we know of her pregnancy and delivery, on the flight to Egypt and then nothing again until she loses Jesus on a visit to the temple and then again at a social function..a wedding..

The Mary we see after those events thinks Jesus may be crazy and seeks to remove him from a time of ministry..

Then we see her at the cross with Christ and then again in the upper room where she along with other believers received the Holy Spirit We ever hear of her again

We have only a handful of references to Mary.. we have no way to know that she was always obedient to God .

All we know about her is good - exceptionally good - blessed (as the Gospel tells us, as Elizabeth tells her, as the angel tells her).

She said Mary was blessed by God..not BLESS ED as Catholics like to pronounce it.. Elizabeth was glorifying God not Mary..

Was Mary good as God counts good? Jesus said NO ONE was good except God