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Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ
LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

Posted on 01/02/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Paragon Defender

Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

By Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander Of the Seventy

 

 

 

Dennis B. Neuenschwander, “Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Jan 2009, 16–22

Adapted from a presentation to the Seventy.

 

 

 

In the Doctrine and Covenants we read that Joseph Smith was “called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:2). The call of an Apostle is first to witness or testify of Jesus Christ. Old Testament prophets testified of His coming. The New Testament Apostles bore personal witness of Christ’s being and of the absolute reality of His Resurrection. This apostolic witness was the basis of their teaching. “Ye shall be witnesses unto me” (Acts 1:8) was Jesus’s instruction to the original Twelve. Peter testified on the day of Pentecost to the Jews who had gathered “out of every nation” (Acts 2:5) that “this Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses” (Acts 2:32). Similarly, Paul wrote to the Corinthians that Jesus “was seen of me also” (1 Corinthians 15:8). The sure witness of Christ’s being and the reality of His Resurrection is the first pillar of apostolic testimony.

The second pillar is centered on the Savior’s redemptive and saving power. Peter teaches that to the Lord “give all the Prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Without these twin pillars of testimony concerning Christ, there could be no Apostle. Such testimonies are born of experience, divine command, and instruction. For example, Luke writes that Christ showed Himself to the Apostles “alive after his passion … being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

How does the Prophet Joseph Smith fit into these apostolic requirements? The answer is “Perfectly.”

The First Vision

Joseph Smith’s apostolic instruction began in 1820. Pondering the questions of religion, he soon found that there was no way to reason or argue one’s opinion to an authoritative conclusion concerning the correctness of the various churches or their doctrines. Short of a divine manifestation, young Joseph could add only one more opinion to the already existing “war of words and tumult of opinions” (Joseph Smith—History 1:10). But Joseph’s questions on religion were answered by the personal and physical manifestation of God the Father and His divine and living Son, Jesus Christ—an experience referred to as the First Vision.

Like that of the original Apostles, Joseph’s experience with Deity was direct and personal. There was no need for the opinion of others or the deliberations of a council to define what he saw or what it came to mean to him. Joseph’s vision was at first an intensely personal experience—an answer to a specific question. Over time, however, illuminated by additional experience and instruction, it became the founding revelation of the Restoration.

As apostolic as this manifestation of Christ’s being, existence, and Resurrection was to Joseph Smith, it was not the only thing Jesus wanted to teach him. The boy Joseph’s first lesson arose from the manifestation of Christ’s absolute, omnipotent, and divine power. Joseph learned firsthand at least one meaning of the redeeming and saving power of Christ when he prayed in the grove. As he began to pray, “Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” (Joseph Smith—History 1:15). With every bit of energy Joseph had, he began to call upon God to deliver him from the grasp of this enemy.

“At the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction … , I saw a pillar of light. …

“It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17).

Joseph Smith’s confrontation with the adversary is reminiscent of an experience Moses had, about which the Prophet would learn some few years later. Unlike the boy Joseph, however, Moses saw God’s greatness first and then was confronted with the power of the adversary before being delivered from his influence. (See Moses 1.)

The difference in the order of events is significant. Moses was already far into maturity and had much knowledge and influence prior to this event. By displaying His magnificent power to Moses before he faced the adversary, the Lord helped Moses put his life into perspective. After experiencing God’s glory, Moses said, “Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed” (Moses 1:10). This incident enabled Moses to withstand the temptations of the adversary that followed.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was an inexperienced young man, who in his lifetime would repeatedly face adversarial power and the overwhelming problems it brings. By facing the adversary first, then being saved from his assault by the appearance of the Father and the Son, Joseph learned this indelible lesson: as great as the power of evil might be, it must always withdraw with the appearance of righteousness.

This lesson was critical in Joseph’s apostolic education. He needed this knowledge not only because of the personal trials that lay ahead of him but also because of the overwhelming opposition he would face in founding and directing the Church.

The boy Joseph went into the grove seeking wisdom, and wisdom he received. His apostolic instruction had begun. Among the great apostolic lessons of this First Vision were both the physical nature of the Savior and Heavenly Father and the initial and fundamental lessons relating to Their power—each a pillar of apostolic testimony.

The Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith’s early apostolic instruction continued with his translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon gave Joseph access to “the fulness of the everlasting Gospel” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34), principles that were necessary to understand even prior to the organization of the Church. The Prophet was introduced to numerous “plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26) prophetic and apostolic testimonies regarding the Savior, all of which served as models for him.

Indeed, the Book of Mormon prophets employ over 100 titles in their teachings of Christ, each of which helped Joseph understand the Savior’s divine role.1 By virtue of these teachings, Joseph Smith became intimately acquainted with ancient prophets, giving him insight into the divine purpose of his responsibilities.

The Book of Mormon illuminates the universality of Christ’s Atonement. The Savior’s holy sacrifice is not confined to the borders of the Holy Land of His day or even restricted to the apostolic world of the original Twelve. The Atonement encompasses all of God’s creations—past, present, and future. What an impression Jacob’s teaching of the “infinite atonement” (2 Nephi 9:7) must have made on the mind of young Joseph, especially in contrast to Christian teachings at the time.

The Book of Mormon also introduces the universality of the Resurrection and other doctrines relating to it. Discourses on this doctrine by Lehi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, Amulek, Samuel the Lamanite, and Moroni are all rich sources of instruction.

During the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet received additional valuable personal instruction concerning the redemptive and saving power of Christ. In 1828 Martin Harris persuaded Joseph to lend him the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. When Martin Harris lost those pages, the Prophet felt an enormous despair.2 His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recorded that Joseph exclaimed: “Oh, my God! … All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God. … How shall I appear before the Lord? Of what rebuke am I not worthy from the angel of the Most High?”3

For well over a month the Lord left Joseph in this terrible condition of remorse.4 Then came relief and the apostolic lesson. The Lord told Joseph:

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. …

“For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him” (D&C 3:1, 4).

These words carefully describe what Joseph Smith had been experiencing. He had learned the exacting nature of the apostolic call and to whom the Apostle, at all cost, owes his loyalty. “Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words,” Joseph was told, “yet you should have been faithful” (D&C 3:7–8). Joseph Smith had lost access to the plates for a season and had been taught an invaluable lesson. Subsequently, the plates were returned, and his position as translator restored.

How critical were the lessons provided by the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith grew in his apostolic calling! The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion”5 because it contains so many prophetic testimonies of Christ and stands as a tangible witness of the Restoration.

Continuing Revelation and Scripture

After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon in 1829 and organizing the Church in 1830, Joseph Smith had the opportunity to receive continuing apostolic education through the process of translating other scripture. This included three years of translating the Bible and, beginning in 1835, translating the book of Abraham. Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible expanded his understanding of the role of Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles. It also resulted in additional revelation, namely the book of Moses.

The book of Moses provided the Prophet with important knowledge about the Savior’s ministry, including His role in the Creation. “The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: … I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things” (Moses 2:1). Further, He said, “And worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).

The book of Moses clarified Christ’s relationship to the Father in the premortal existence and reinforced the Prophet’s understanding of the ascendant power of righteousness. One of the most beautiful of all the apostolic lessons that came to Joseph Smith in this revelation was the confirmation of God’s love. It was so different from the harsh, unforgiving, and judgmental personage so many believed God to be; the book of Moses reveals a God of infinite compassion. Enoch saw that the “God of heaven … wept” (Moses 7:28) over those who would not receive Him. Wishing to know how it was possible, Enoch was given an answer that has a familiar biblical feel to it: “I [have] given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father. … Wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?” (Moses 7:33, 37; see also Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37–39).

Through the translation of the book of Moses, the Prophet also became more acquainted with the redeeming and saving power of the Savior. As the Lord said, this earth was created “by the word of my power” (Moses 1:32) for the purpose of bringing “to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Many long years before the Savior taught Thomas and the Twelve that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6), He revealed to Moses that “this is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time” (Moses 6:62).

The First Vision in the grove, the translation of the Book of Mormon, the revision of the Bible, the revelation of the book of Moses, and the translation of the book of Abraham laid the basic foundation of the Church, largely through the rapidly expanding knowledge and testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith relating to Jesus Christ.

Revelations given to him and compiled in the Doctrine and Covenants contain a wealth of knowledge concerning the Savior. One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world. I am grateful to know that Jesus was “in the beginning with the Father” (D&C 93:21). I am grateful to know that He “suffered these things for [me], that [I] might not suffer if [I] would repent” (D&C 19:16).

My Testimony of What the Prophet Revealed

I am grateful for yet one other thing about the Savior’s ministry that stirs my soul deeply. From studying the promises of Malachi, Moroni’s initial visit with Joseph, the Savior’s words to the Nephites, and the visit of Elijah in the Kirtland Temple, I learn that God loves His children and has provided a way for each to return to Him. I know of no doctrine more just, no teaching that gives more hope than that of redemption of the dead. I am so grateful for the revelations that teach me that the Savior’s Atonement reaches to those who have lived, loved, served, and hoped for a better day yet never heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to embrace His gospel. This knowledge alone would be sufficient to convert me to the gospel if I knew nothing else at all. Here, at least for me, is the ultimate testimony of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

What, then, can be said of the incomparable saving power of Christ? That which Joseph Smith learned in the Sacred Grove about the power of righteousness overcoming evil foreshadows the final scene. So reveals the Lord:

“I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

“Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment” (D&C 19:2–3).

Our own testimonies of the Savior are framed by the testimony and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Is it any wonder then that the Prophet taught that “the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”6

Joseph Smith’s apostolic testimony of the divine reality and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, as well as his knowledge of the redemptive and saving power of the Savior, can best be seen by the Prophet’s own beautiful, powerful, and succinct witness:

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

How grateful I am for the apostolic call of Joseph Smith.

 

 

 

Notes

1. See Book of Mormon Reference Companion, ed. Dennis L. Largey (2003), 457–58.

2. See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley (1958), 128–29.

3. History of Joseph Smith, 128, 129.

4. The 116 pages were lost in June 1828. In July Joseph Smith received what is now section 3 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In September the plates were returned to the Prophet. See the historical introductions to D&C 3; 10.

5. History of the Church, 4:461.

6. History of the Church, 3:30.

 

 

 

 

 

 


TOPICS: Breaking News; Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: braking; cult; heresy; inman; lds; lies; mormon; notbreakingnews; propaganda; religion
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To: Zakeet

Excellent list of anti-Mormon propaganda full of misleadings, half-truths and falsehoods. I am sure the anti-Mormon gang are way proud!


1,081 posted on 01/03/2011 3:43:27 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Mind hopping way back upthread and check what you had originally said about a group being ridiculed unless they had a caucus ???

and why I answered you as I did ???

No ???

O....K


1,082 posted on 01/03/2011 3:45:49 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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Comment #1,083 Removed by Moderator

To: SkyPilot

You really should get your info from more than just anti-Mormon propagandists. You will be much better for it.


1,084 posted on 01/03/2011 3:46:22 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Elsie

The George Clooney look!
The George W Bush look!
The Alec Balwin look!

The man’s a chamelion I tell you! A chemelion!

Waiting for the white and delightsom Obama look!

Now, how will they make him look like Sarah Palin?


1,085 posted on 01/03/2011 3:48:07 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Jim Robinson
Caucus threads are not missionary outreaches; they are closed threads for people of like mind to discuss their beliefs amongst themselves, without being ridiculed. So when the Catholics here want to discuss some bizarre aspect of their religion, like eating Christ’s body and worrying about dropping crumbs on the floor, they can do so without others making fun of them. And when Presbyterians want to discuss their strange opinions on God choosing everybody, and all of us being predestined one way or another, they can do so without the free-will’ers laughing at them. And so on. We all have our particular denominational beliefs, and might well find other beliefs to be bizarre or strange or even blasphemous. But this is a primarily political forum, where we have a common goal of pushing the political conservative movement. So to the degree we have religious discussions at all, it’s a sidebar to what is advertised as the primary goal of the forum, something that seems to meet the needs of some members for discussing their own peculiar faiths while still being part of the larger whole. Given the Caucus rules, it would be impossible for your to “battle with the likes” of a relgious group posting caucus threads — no battles are allowed.

I didn't ask you my friend. Seems to me JR made it clear as to why this is not a Mormon caucus thread. Possibly you were not paying attention.

1,086 posted on 01/03/2011 3:50:31 PM PST by Utah Binger (Finally home to a foot of snow. A warming trend is occuring. It is 20 degrees right now.)
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Comment #1,087 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie

Holy cow. I drive for four hours to SLC and the thread explodes. Cock-eyed Caucus! LOL


1,088 posted on 01/03/2011 3:54:21 PM PST by Utah Binger (Finally home to a foot of snow. A warming trend is occuring. It is 20 degrees right now.)
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To: reaganaut; DelphiUser

DU: BTW, I am a descendant of Abraham with the genealogy to prove it. [Delphi user]

- - - - - -
Reaganaut: Oh guys. Get a load of THIS claim. ROFLMAO
________________________________________

This junk was one of the things that attracted me to these threads...

I read someones outrageous claim that they were descended from one of the tribes and named it and could prove it...

I thought it was a joke and poo haaqed the comment..

I got back some curses and threats etc...

How dare I say it was impossible to know etc...

WOW

that got my attention...

No amount of explaining that even the Jews didnt know who they were helped...

I was food for the chopper...

Loony toons religion...


1,089 posted on 01/03/2011 3:57:42 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Paragon Defender; reaganaut; Colofornian; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana
You really should get your info from more than just anti-Mormon propagandists.

Oh?

Gee, thanks Joseph Goebbels....errr...Paragon Defender.

What do you know about me? What books have I read? Where was a born. Am I ex-Mormon, or not? What is my undergraduate degree? My graduate degree? Have I read Doctrine and Covenants cover to cover? What about the Bible?

You don't know anything about me....but I "get" my "info" from "anti-Mormon propagandists."

Really?

Well, I'll tell you this. I don't know much about you either. But, I do know that you posted an idiotic cartoon of a thread. If you do that here, don't expect cuddles and hugs. Nothing here on FR stands up if it isn't based on Truth and Reality.

Nothing.

You deserve this "blank" storm raining down on you right now.

1,090 posted on 01/03/2011 3:58:17 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: T. P. Pole
 
Since I can't easily hand you my copy of the LDS published King James Bible (which I take with me to church every Sunday), here is a link to Matthew Chapter 1.

And here is a comparison of Mark...

 

"But when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away, (for it was very great,) and two angels sitting thereon, clothed in long white garments; and they were affrighted.

"But the angels said unto them, Be not affrighted; ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified; he is risen; he is not here; behold the place where they laid him;

"And go your way, tell his disciples and Peter, that he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him as he said unto you.

"And they, entering into the sepulcher, saw the place where they laid Jesus" (JST Mark 16:3-6).

 

 

JST = the bastardized version (which does NOT even rate as SCRIPTURE in the MORMON library)  that the 'lord' commanded Joseph Smith to 'translate' from the KJV.

What does SCRIPTURE really say???

 

 

Mark 16:3-6 (King James Version)

 3And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?

 4And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.

 5And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

 6And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

 

Truth
Fiction
3And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?

"But when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away, (for it was very great,) and two angels sitting thereon, clothed in long white garments; and they were affrighted.

4And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.

"But the angels said unto them, Be not affrighted; ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified; he is risen; he is not here; behold the place where they laid him;

 5And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

"And go your way, tell his disciples and Peter, that he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him as he said unto you.

 6And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

"And they, entering into the sepulcher, saw the place where they laid Jesus"


1,091 posted on 01/03/2011 3:59:48 PM PST by Elsie
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Ive seen them claim that Joey Smith is a direct descendant of the LORD Jesus Christ...

Just how blasphemeous does it get...

Is Dan Brown a mormon ???

hed make a good one...


1,092 posted on 01/03/2011 4:01:26 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: DelphiUser
Anyone who cares, Matthew 5:31-32 KJV has Jesus condemning Divorce and calling remarriage of the divorced adultery.
Now, Godzilla, you big prehistoric lizard, post a similar scripture where Jesus condemns polygamy as adultery. I double dog dare you!

Now du, it was explained quite clearly with all the other passages I cited in the synoptics. Clearly in Jesus' teaching, divorce is only valid in one condition. If other divorces are invalid (hint - they are still married in the eyes of God) in regards to marriage, then any second wife is an adulterous relationship because there is a pre-existing marriage.

Now try real hard du to apply some common sense. Jesus states if a monogamous marriage is in effect, any additonal marriages are 'adultery'. Not a hard concept to grasp - unless you like to grasp at straws. Thus from ALL the passages - marriage is one man to one woman (and vice versa), any more is adultery.

So in your opinion, Jesus is saying if a man gets a divorce and then remarries is the same as staying married and getting married again...

I know having to actually think can be hard for some. Jesus is saying there is only one valid justification for a divorce (ie breaking the marriage bond - see Mt 19:6). Absent that - in God's eyes they are still married. After all du(h) the definition of adultery is sex outside of the bonds of legal marriage. Polygamy by any other name.

You do know that a lot of people now days get divorced and remarried who would never think of just staying married and adding a wife, right? (Just checking)

The perverted sense of our society today is not God's standard now is it Du.

So, they and I disagree with you that there is no difference. I wold say that Jesus is saying, if you can't keep the first wife, you don'r deserve a second one. Hey, i know as long as we are adding to the Bible, maybe we should just say that Jesus thinks... Wait we're not supposed to add to the Bible are we... I just don't see the word polygamy in there, because it's not in there.

It is sooooo funny to watch you squirm and squiggle to get out of a jam du. What you or they 'believe' external to the scripture doesn't count for squat. But adding to the bible is just what mormons like to do anyway now isn't it.

So, were the Indians Breaking the Law when they had more than one Squaw? if so what law?

If they were under federal jurisdiction at the time - most likely, dependent upon the LAW and treaty with the tribes. But hey, we are not talking about lamanites here du - we are talking about an American citizen and THOSE laws he engraved into mormon doctrine that mormons were REQUIRED to follow the law of the land.

The city of Nauvoo was allowed by it's charter to supersede the laws of the state if it so desired. Nauvoo had no law against polygamy.

That is a myth and a false representation. The charter states quite clearly that no law may be established that violated the state or national consitution. Furthermore, if there WERE no law prohibiting polygamy in Nauvoo, why did smith get his temple undies in such a knot when his polygamy was exposed by the Expositor? Double facepalm on that interpretation Du.

There was no "law" for Joseph to break, he died before the Federal law was passed. You could argue that what he did was immoral, but appeals to the Bible have not worked out well for you in the past either.

Wrong again Du - he was also in voilation of state laws as well. Smith's polygamous marriages occurred in Illinois in the early 1840s. The Illinois Anti-bigamy Law enacted February 12th, 1833 clearly stated that polygamy was illegal. It reads:

"Sec 121. Bigamy consists in the having of two wives or two husbands at one and the same time, knowing that the former husband or wife is still alive. If any person or persons within this State, being married, or who shall hereafter marry, do at any time marry any person or persons, the former husband or wife being alive, the person so offending shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, and imprisoned in the penitentiary, not exceeding two years. It shall not be necessary to prove either of the said marriages by the register or certificate thereof, or other record evidence; but the same may be proved by such evidence as is admissible to prove a marriage in other cases, and when such second marriage shall have taken place without this state, cohabitation in this state after such second marriage shall be deemed the commission of the crime of bigamy, and the trial in such case may take place in the county where such cohabitation shall have occurred."
Revised Laws of Illinois, 1833, p.198-99

And John Taylor, the third president of the church, claimed that he believed in keeping all the laws of the United States "except one"--i.e., "The law in relation to polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, page 317)

Getting tired of digging your self in deeper du?

When bring'em young moved the clan to Utah, it was still part of mexican territory - which outlawed polygamy at that time. When it became a US territory, US common laws in 1850 also outlawed polygamy.

DU, even church publications, doctrines and manuals admit that polygamy was illegal.

The Book of Commandments contained the following statement: "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the CRIME of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." (Section C1, 251)(see also History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 247). This section was in every single edition until 1876, when the D & C first included section 132 justifying plural marriage

"The law of the land and the rules of the church do not allow one man to have more than one wife alive at once." (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 715, November 15, 1844.)

You've said you are still 'learning' - now is another time to admit you still have a lot of learning to go du.

1,093 posted on 01/03/2011 4:01:49 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: reaganaut
Delph We have one God

B.S. The LDS have THREE ‘gods’ who are one only in purpose (with two physical bodies).

Depends on your definition of oneness now doesn't it. The Trinity looks pretty silly to most Buddhists I talked to, any who had had it explained to them by an "Orthodox Christian" wold start out by asking questions about that. You're just used to that particular man made Dogma from 325 AD.

In addition, their leaders have taught that there are millions of gods out there and that they can become Gods themselves.

Actually, you spend far more time on that on FR than I ever have in church, but if you believe Man can be deified, as the Bible teaches, then you have to accept that there are gods besides God our Father, we just don't worship them or have anything to do with them.

So to say that you believe in only ONE God is intentionally misleading. Maybe only one God ‘for this world’, or only one God in purpose, but not as the Bible teaches it.

It is exactly as the Bible teaches it. Try reading John 17 first read the part I've marked, Jesus himself draws a simile between his and God's oneness adn the oneness the disciples are supposed to have, then go back and read the whole chapter to make sure i'm not taking it out of context. You'll never read the Bible the same way again once you understand God the Father and Jesus Christ better.

And the only ‘salvation’ by grace is resurrection. Exaltation (Heaven to Christians) REQUIRES WORKS. Works to the LDS are required not just a sign of faith. For Christians, works are what we do when we have already been saved, not to get there, but for the LDS they are needed (including secret handshakes) to get back to God. That is not salvation by grace at all.

Just for the record, believing in Christ is a work. You literally have no knowledge of our actual beliefs, try reading James 2:14-26 what we believe is Biblical, true gospel.

Want sources/quotes Delph? I can provide them.

Thanks, I've seen them, have you sen what I am quoting? Afraid to look? If you don't want to read from LDS.org, fine, get a KJV bible and look it up, it's the same.

Delph
1,094 posted on 01/03/2011 4:02:49 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: caww; All
Hard to believe these people could imagine this of Christ when His Crucifixtion and Resurrection was all about SAVING the life of those who trust in His finished work. ...Which then it is easy to assume they do not worship the same Christ of Christinaity by any means.....but one who was created and promoted by Joseph Smith... who himself was an occultist.

I was in a non-Mormon store today...NOT looking for anything Mormon, let alone all things Mormon.

And here was the title of the 32-page hardbound book for pre-school/primary-aged kids I came across: My First Book of Mormon Stories -- retold by Deanna Draper Buck, 1998, published by the Mormon church-owned Deseret Book Company.

Now...a 32-page book w/2-4 graphs in it (highly illustrated) is easy to quickly peruse:
* 86 paragraphs
* 2 of which were devoted to the post-crucifixion events -- what I described in DETAIL in post #454!!!

ALL: Now, WHAT do you think that these two graphs --
--2.3% of this book's written content...
--& 3.2% of the 31 pages of actual Book of Mormon content coverage...
...Was devoted to?
(Keep in mind the target readership for this book is the youngest of Mormons & Mormon attempted proselytes!)

Well, I took the opportunity to write those graphs down word-for-word!

From page 24 [note: no actual page numbers in the book, but was from the 24th page devoted to BoM content]:

"When Jesus died there were terrible storms and earthquakes in the Promised Land."
"It was totally dark for three days. Houses and cities were destroyed, and the people were frightened. Many of them died."

ALL: Does that sound like the Bible? There's no three days of darkness in the Bible...
No terrible storms...
Probably one earthquake at most...
And no cities were destroyed!
[If you want the "lowdown" for the distinctions of the Book of Mormon jesus vs. the Biblical Jesus, see post #454.]

Meanwhile, what are Mormon leaders teaching the most vulnerable about Christ and His crucifixion & death? What kind of a wrathful, vengeful Christ & God the Father are they teaching them?

Is it any wonder Mormons don't celebrate Easter as a church body unless it falls on a Sabbath Day? Is it any wonder Mormons don't recognize Good Friday as a church body?

Their "jesus" goes out & destroys city & city upon his death, either covering them with dirt or drowning them! One author estimated the number of villages and concluded the Mormon jesus killed 70,000-90,000 upon his death!

Is that the "good news" of the gospel, Mormon style? (Indeed; alas it is)

[Oh, & by the way...on the 22nd page of that same book...when it comes to telling the story of the Christ child, is there any mention of Bethlehem? Nope. The Mormon church stays true to Smith's version in Alma 7:10 in the Book of Mormon...the line in the book reads: "...in the land of Jerusalem."]

Mormons have to distort & twist almost anything Christian it touches...even the Christmas carol, "O Little Town of Bethlehem" isn't safe in their hands!

1,095 posted on 01/03/2011 4:04:34 PM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: DelphiUser
I promise people they can have the same answer as mine if they will just follow the steps, I teach people to pray.

No there isn't du - what you 'teach' is a placebo effect along with reinforcement of behavior - common with controlling cults.

Anti's collectively and you two specifically have taught people not to pray but to rely on your analysis.

Du you are now misrepresenting what I have specifically stated in the past - but then that is par for the course when the exchange is going poorly for you.

1,096 posted on 01/03/2011 4:05:05 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: T Minus Four

Good on ya !!!


1,097 posted on 01/03/2011 4:05:38 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Guess that entry needs clarification. The original two visitors who made an appointment to call again were not the pair who returned. The second meeting involved the original elder along with the big, strange guy, who said very little and whose presence, as well as, the absence of one original elder, was never explained to me. I believed it to be a bait and switch of some kind. The uninvited guy was large, not very neat, and strange in his body language. I would not have invited him into my home. By the way, it was the elder who brought him and didn’t explain, that made the phone call comment about my journal and my bed.


1,098 posted on 01/03/2011 4:08:55 PM PST by TiaS
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To: SkyPilot

You don’t know anything about me....but I “get” my “info” from “anti-Mormon propagandists.”


But you parrot their propaganda so well. And I see you add a little of your own. How quaint.


1,099 posted on 01/03/2011 4:09:28 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Normandy

Normie: We believe that Jesus has placed His authority in the Church by delegating the keys of the kingdom to His earthly servants — this was the same authority the Christ gave to Peter in the ancient Church.
___________________________________________

Nana: Do the same “we” also “believe” that women are as entitled to be “delegated the keys” as men ???

Normie: As it the early days of the Church, the apostles are males.
__________________________________________________

Thats not what I asked Norm...

meanwhile, you really need to read the Christian Bible...


1,100 posted on 01/03/2011 4:10:53 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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