Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
snip: I just figure our friend kosta is the classic snarling “dog in the manger”: He can’t eat the fodder; but he’s determined to prevent all the other animals from eating it — even though their nourishment depends on it.
Spirited: Simply restated: The snarling dog (Kosta) willfully refuses salvation and is determined to prevent all others from attaining salvation.
Recall that the Pharisees also refused salvation, nor did they want anyone else to have it.
Jeepers, talk about a case of "the pot calling the kettle black!" This "God" is simply Dawkins, writ large. In short, Dawkins is the "measure" of God here....
Of course you already know that I value your "taxonomy" of atheists; i.e., the "sorting" of atheists into three basic types or categories. I think it's "spot-on."
The first type wouldn't bother to be engaged on the question, especially in a venue like FR's Religion Forum. So we tend not to see the atheist who does not himself believe, but doesn't care if anyone else does. It's not an issue of concern to him at all. Meanwhile, he's got a life to get on with....
I think we do see the second and third types around here. And I agree with your description of these types. And also the conclusion that type (2) "can be reasoned with or witnessed to. To a point." I also agree that engagement with type (3) is very likely an exercise in futility from the get-go....
You can't reason with, or witness to, a person who begins with an unshakeable conclusion. What that unshakeable conclusion might be is a tad complicated. Because on the one hand, Dawkins wouldn't/couldn't rail at God at all if, in fact, he did not already know that God IS. Dawkins knows very well that God exists: He just doesn't like Him very much — all those nasty rules that put a crimp on Dawkins' style in some obscure way. On the other hand, Dawkins is a theological ignoramus. He cannot open his mouth without confessing his ignorance on all questions of God and religion.
Of course, the rabble to whom he mainly appeals will not notice this, probably. But just about anybody else on earth is more knowledgeable on religious questions than Dawkins is. So he ends up looking like a fool to those more discerning than he is.
Frankly, I don't know why he bothers to "go after God." One would think such a highly esteemed scientist could find better things to do.
But then he plays this "hands across the waters" bit with Daniel Dennett in Cambridge, called the "Brights Campaign." All religious believers are "Dims." If you want to be considered a "Bright," the first thing you've got to do is dump God. Then you can get into the club....
To me, Dawkins, Dennett, et al., are simply silly people.
Thank you ever so much, dearest sister in Christ, for your outstanding essay/post!
Looks like "the bottom line" to me, too, dear spirited! Thank you so much for your insight!
INDEED.
I vaguely recall it but don’t have a link.
VERY WELL PUT, imho.
Plenty and most eggregiously true.
However, all institutional RELIGIOUS structures TEND toward such to varying degrees. The older, and larger, the more so they do fall prey to such horrors.
And some seem to layer it on in thicker and thicker layers with more and more gilding and more and more embroidered dresses.
AND
it’s NOT ALL the hierarchy’s fault.
Certainly the power-mongers lead the pack.
However, the sheeple in the pews feel worth more when they facilitate, fawn over, contribute gilding
to THEIR leaders . . . the vicarious basking in the leaders’ gilding is pretty rife in virtually every congregation that’s old and large enough—and certainly every denomination.
Might be quicker to look through his INFORUM posts.
NO DOUBT INDEED.
I find that a very anointed and discerning assessment and set of observations.
PRAISE GOD for His Spirit’s obvious work in your comments.
I thought it went back a fur piece.
Welllllllllllll
the screaming, wailing and whining RC’s on FR
have DEMONSTRATED the truth of that relentlessly for more than 10 years on FR.
That’s obviously the role she plays in so many of THEIR lives.
absolutely indeed.
notice I didn’t call her a pet rabbit, lol, lol
I don't remember that particular rabbit hole. My point was that Jesus created His Church during the Gospels and the Holy Spirit commissioned it at Pentecost. The "institutionalized" Church began then, not at some future point.
But, hey, I am their favorite pincushion doll. They even keep track of my posts! I am flattered.
Would they even understand the reason of their attention?
Is it really Paul or is it certain people's interpretation of Paul?
and that he doesn't believe in the Old/New Testament as the inspired word of God and that errors exists.
Kosta is more knowledgeable than I on the developing NT books over the first three centuries, and their relationship to the purported OT verses that many of them quote. It was a courtesy ping. I do not need Kosta to defend my position. I do find, however, that he understands the Bible significantly better than most of the Bible Believers that I converse with on FR.
Is this trying to throw mud in the waters?
No, not really. I am trying to debate from a position of facts. You may or may not have seen some of the discussions that kosta and I have had regarding our different positions.
I don't know. It is not what the Jews built at the foot of Mount Sinai. It says iStockphoto on it and has an X through it, along with some sort of icon. Do you know what it is?
I would agree with that statement. I would not say, especially based upon your claims of Catholic knowledge, that you did not fail Catholicism any less either.
We didn’t decide that we couldn’t make the grade and go out to find another church that would suit us.
That is not how you worded it on this forum, no.
Almost all of us who have left the Catholic church after being born again, have done so with our eyes wide open after having discovered the TRUTH in God’s word, the Truth that is contradicted by Catholic doctrine constantly.
We have had numerous exchanges and I have read numerous other posts that you have made. I will stand by my statement that those who leave the Church do so for personal reasons and those who choose to enter the Church as converts do so for theological ones.
The only failure in this picture is the failure of the Catholic church to be true to Scripture, the Word of God.
Interesting statement coming from an individual who rejects the Gospel of Jesus Christ as being only relevant to the Jews.
The Catholic church failed us and there’s no point in staying on that Titanic.
The Titanic had neither the promise of Jesus nor the presence of the Holy Spirit for ever.
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