The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[topcat54]

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Posting Latin is against the rules of FR.

Posting garbage like the rest of that post is against the rules of civilized debate.

You know nothing of either.

[Cronos]

It means the word of God was authored by God.

So, are you pre-trib or post-trib?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Step back.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Farther...

[kosta50]

The topic was faith, which is salvific. If the faith is what saves then only God can give it, free will notwithstanding. And, by the same token, if lack of faith is equal to being lost then it is also God's doing, lest humans have a role in salvation/perdition of man.

[Cronos]

Good point.

I just need to add to my analogy that this hammer has the ability to say NO, to not do something or to do something else. It has a mind of it's own.

But then, does it fulfill the wielder's plan or its own plan when it hits the nails? hmm..... one could argue that it fulfills both plans. And if it does not hit the nail on the head then it does not fulfill the wielders plan.

Now, as to whether this holds true for Islamic beliefs -- if one believes the Koran to be the word of God, then yes, this is exactly what happens.

however, one topic at a time -- your question was whether expressing one's opinions on faith to someone means that man determines other men's salvation. I stated that that is wrong -- and even if one takes the Islamic, etc. terrorists, the basic difference is if :

1. One believes there is a conscious entity out there - God
2. That God is an interventionist God

If one believes points 1 and 2, then a man expressing his faith to another is not man 1 determining man 2's salvation.

[Cronos]

Actually, no -- posting foreign words with the translation is allowed. Dobra noc = Bon nuit = Buenos noches = Gute Nacht = शुभ रात्रि = Good night = bonam noctem.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

then there is no point in preaching, teaching, spreading the Good News.

Apparently you were unable to finish reading my post you're referencing.

Too many syllables?

God commands us to preach the Gospel to all men. Are you so unfamiliar with Paul that you haven read him here...?

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!...

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." -- Romans 10:13-15,17

But I'm not so misguided as to think I open anyone's ears. God alone does that through the Holy Spirit.

This is basic Christinity 101 and once again we see the Roman Catholic church flunks.

And "hyper-Calvinist" is a pejorative which the Religion Moderator has said can not be used when speaking about an individual FReeper.

If at all possible, obey the rules.

[kosta50]

And if one takes Dr. E's point of view, then Kosta's statement is a Calvinist statement.

Rather than making useless labels, why not just answer my simple question: (a) is faith salvific or not? And (b) who/what determines who is saved and who is lost, God or man?

[Cronos]

you're right, Faith is a grace. When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from "my Father who is in heaven"

Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"

but, in faith, the human intellect and will co-operate with divine grace. As Thomas Aquinas wrote: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will moved by God through grace."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Actually, yes. You broke the rule against posting foreign phrases without translation here in post 1991...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2657209/posts?page=1991#1991

CRONOS: “...Vade retro satana - good night.”

Anyone making a statement like that is a sorry excuse for a Christian. But fools can only rise so high.

[Cronos]

?? My post 1999 says

step back, Dr.E

Good night.

to which you replied Posting garbage like the rest of that post is against the rules of civilized debate. --> being civil and saying "good night" is "against the rules of civilized debate"?

[Cronos]

As I said "if we take the hyper-Calvinist view, as represented by Dr. E's post here, then there is no point in preaching, teaching, spreading the Good News. ooops, wait a minute, Jesus Himself said to spread the Good News.

So it seems that calvinism denies Christ's words

[Dr. Eckleburg]

a) Grace saves through faith

b) God determines whom He will save

Or else there is no God.

[Cronos]

Does that mean a recant of

THAT'S Christianity. THAT'S Calvinism.?

[kosta50]

your question was whether expressing one's opinions on faith to someone means that man determines other men's salvation. I stated that that is wrong

My question is still the same: can my religious opinion(s) give someone faith or cause him to loose it? Which is equivalent to asking, can one's religious opinion(s) save or condmen an individual (since faith = salvation)? If the answer is yes, then man is a necessary element in another man's salavtion/perdition, which is not Christian belief.

[Cronos]

What Calvinists always seem to forget is where their bitterness originates. What's seldom talked about by any follower of Calvin is that his father and brother both worked for the bishopric of Noyon in Picardy as a treasurer and lawyer.

Calvin's father, Gerard, was involved in some financial misdeeds and refused to provide the financial records to the Bishop of Noyon . Gerard was excommunicated for his misdeeds and later on so was his son Charles.

Gerard then made John Calvin leave his theological studies to become a French Lawyer, which is very apropos considering what John learned from his father. John's ever growing bitterness against the Church for the excommunication of his father and brother forced him to leave the Church altogether.

And now you know the roots of Calvinism and its bitterness.

No wonder Calvinists are so bitter

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I just need to add to my analogy that this hammer has the ability to say NO

So you're like the axe, right?

"Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood." -- Isaiah 10:15

[kosta50]

Faith is a grace

Which means no man can cause another man to lose it. Therefore, opinions expressed by me on this forum are incapable of causing anyone to lose his or her faith.