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The Not So Secret Rapture
reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: crusades; endtimes; eschatology; rapture
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To: Cvengr

yes, double-predestination is not scriptural. However, this is accepted teaching in the OPC


2,221 posted on 01/31/2011 12:10:28 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Jeckle)
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To: count-your-change
According to John 16:1-4 such actions were used against Christ’s followers not by them.

Amen. Great Scripture...

"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." -- John 16:2-3


2,222 posted on 01/31/2011 12:11:35 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Step back Dr. Eck — now the dictionary term for exorcism is to expel or attempt to expel (one or more evil spirits) from (a person or place believed to be possessed or haunted)


2,223 posted on 01/31/2011 12:14:03 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And note, translation for you
Credo in unum Deum Patrem omnipotentem, factorem cœli et terra, visibilium omnium et invisibilium; et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, et ex Patre natum ante omnia sæcula; Deum de Deo, lumen de lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero; genitum, non factum, consubstantialem Patri, per quem omnia facta sunt: qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de cœlis, et incarnatas est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria virgine, et homo factus est: crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus, et sepultus est: et resurrexit tertia die secundum Scripturas, et ascendit in cœlum, sedet ad dexteram Patris, et iterum venturus est cum gloria iudicare vivos et mortuos; cuius regni non erit finis: et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre procedit; qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur; qui locutus est per prophetas: et unam sanctam catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam. Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum: et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum et vitam venturi sæculi. Amen. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages; God of God, light of light, true God of true God; begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father, by whom all things were made: who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from the heavens, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man: crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, he suffered and was buried; and he rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures; and he ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of the Father; and again he will come with glory to judge the living and the dead; of whose kingdom there shall be no end: and in the Holy Ghost, the Lord, and the giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father; who with the Father and the Son together is adored and glorified; who spoke by the prophets: and one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

2,224 posted on 01/31/2011 12:16:25 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: kosta50; grey_whiskers

We’re not to make ourselves into stumblingblocks for “an occasion to fall in his brother’s way” which might frustrate or weary a person seeking to know God.


2,225 posted on 01/31/2011 12:18:31 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Cronos

Thanks for the English. You can keep the Latin.


2,226 posted on 01/31/2011 12:19:10 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Cronos

Your post was pulled; not mine.

Learn from it.


2,227 posted on 01/31/2011 12:19:46 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Why does the OPC say this about the Armianians?
Arminianism is indeed a heresy,....

The Bible teaches that Christ did his atoning work on behalf of his elect people, and no others.....

Since the teachings of Arminianism are contrary to Scripture, they are manifestly false. They are serious perversions of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Are Arminian preachers heretics? In a sense, yes,

Is Arminianism a damnable heresy? Yes.

2,228 posted on 01/31/2011 12:21:16 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Cronos

Whatever the OPC says about Arminians is nothing compared to the RCC praying to “a co-redeemer” and following “another Christ.”

Those kinds of errors will only lead men away from God and toward the darkness.


2,229 posted on 01/31/2011 12:24:55 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Cronos

And as you’ve explained to us, it’s morning wherever you are and it’s time for your usual trashing of the OPC/PCA/whatever Protestant group google leads you to.

Enjoy your playtime. The rest of us are ignoring it.


2,230 posted on 01/31/2011 12:27:05 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Yes, unlike others who don’t believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to save, we Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit can be called upon to send away unclean spirits. All one has to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ and firmly tell Satan to go away, the Holy Spirit does the rest. All praise and glory to God.


2,231 posted on 01/31/2011 12:30:30 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
So, as an OPCer, do you believe that
Arminianism is indeed a heresy,....

The Bible teaches that Christ did his atoning work on behalf of his elect people, and no others.....

Are Arminian preachers heretics? In a sense, yes,

Is Arminianism a damnable heresy? Yes.

2,232 posted on 01/31/2011 12:31:41 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Gamecock

Thou shall not covet and thous shall not murder was something the freely chose to IGNORE.


2,233 posted on 01/31/2011 12:34:03 AM PST by Lera
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To: kosta50
"Christ is within us" that sounds wonderful but it is not obvious or compelling.

It wouldn't be to those who cannot relate. But it is nonetheless the difference between Christianity and all other religions, and since Christ abides in us it is quite compelling and obvious to those who know this.

If God is so incomprehensible...

He's actually not incomprehensible to those who know Him.

So who are you to tell others theirs is not true if they are dying for it?

People can and do give thier life for many things...not just religious reasons. So this certainly isn't a consideration for how I might view another religion as true or false.

Some religions are just naturally nicer

There are many people who are 'nice' without any religious affiliation. So this wouldn't affect how I might guage what is truth.

Their God is not dead.

Well in that regard one must then determine if or not the God they claim is the same God of Christianity.

2,234 posted on 01/31/2011 12:44:07 AM PST by caww
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; Quix; CynicalBear
Also, the OPC seems to attack those who believe in the Rapture too
Question: Do you believe the Bible teaches a pre-tribulation rapture? Will the believers in Christ be taken out of this world while the unbelievers are "left behind" to endure the final tribulations before the last day of this world? And will those unbelievers "left behind" have a last chance to repent?
==============================================

Answer:

The answer is "No" to all questions...

2,235 posted on 01/31/2011 12:44:43 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: kosta50

It is a pretentious and potentially dangerous mindset, in my opinion, to assume to be God’s tool, doing supposedly God’s will.


Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

It’s not dangerous at all if you believe this.
There is only one God and if you love him and you love your neighbor as yourself you are not going to run around murdering others thinking you are doing his will.


2,236 posted on 01/31/2011 12:48:40 AM PST by Lera
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; Quix; CynicalBear
Some more OPC attacks on those who believe in the Rapture too
I think that it is wrong to hold (with the Premillennialists) that, from chapter 4:1 on, Revelation is all future.

2,237 posted on 01/31/2011 12:50:07 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Some more OPC attacks. This is from the OPC Q&A site
It will be noted that the Confession sharply contradicts the view popularized today by the neo-Pentecostal movement.

In essence this view would have us believe that we can have the same charismatic gifts that we read about in the age of the Apostles - such as prophecy, speaking in tongues, and healing - today.

This is a very serious error. In essence it is a result of a failure to grasp the Biblical teaching concerning the history of salvation. ....

Never again will there be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit such as took place on the day of Pentecost.

The sending of the Holy Spirit is just as much an unrepeatable event as the birth of Christ was.
This states clearly that the OPC wishes to believe that the sending of the Holy Spirit is UNREPEATABLE
2,238 posted on 01/31/2011 12:57:19 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
And some more beauties of the OPC fate
Salvation of Infants Who Die

The Confession entertains the idea that at least some infants who die in infancy and some others "who are incapable of being outwardly called" are among the elect.

However, the Confession does not say that all such infants, etc., are saved.
The OPC believes that God pre-damns infants to eternal hell. This isn't the Christian God of Love.
2,239 posted on 01/31/2011 1:00:56 AM PST by Cronos (Vade Retro Dottore Satana Jeckle)
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To: Cronos; caww
If one takes it coldly, logically, and first acknowledges the OT as true, then one reads and finds proof in the OT for a Christ, a Messiah. One can find statements in the OT that prove to us Christians that Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah (of course, Jews state that He didn't fulfill...

There are many reasons why Jews reject Jesus as the messiah. For one, the Jewish messiah is no God. The title "son of God" is a royal title and the title given to angels, as well as to Adam (for obvious but literal reasons). Secondly, Jewish scriptures used by the Christians, especially those crucial to Christianity, contain numerous changes that support Christian doctrinal claims, but are not found in the Tanakh (Hebrew sciprutres).

The Christian Old Testament, even the one use by the Protestants, is a mixture of Hebrew and Septuagint (Greek OT translation) verses, even though Protestants claim their OT is the same as the Tanakh.

Subtle changes (mistranslations?) such as in Isaiah 53:5,8 change the whole meaning of verses. Thus, in verse 5, Christian translators say "he was wounded for our transgressions" and Tanakh says "from our transgressions."

Verse 8 says "for the transgression of my people was he stricken" in the Christian versions, whereas the Tanakh reads "for the sins of my people were they stricken." The Jewish sages say "mi" (they) not "lih" (he) [the Hebrew letter m and l don't look alike)

More importantly, Christianity literally turned some OT stories upside down. For example the Passover Lamb. Lambs were considered sacred animals in ancient Egypt. Killing the Passover lamb and smearing its blood on the Israelite homes was a way if telling the Egyptians that their god was nothign but a stinky animal, and wa sno god of any consequence. The lamb was clearly not killed to "atone" for any iniquities, as the Christians teach.

Likewise, the shedding of the blood for atonement applied only for unintentional sins. In Judaism the sins of willful commission could not be atoned by animal sacrifice, but only through repentance. Obviously the Christians "corrected" that too!

Besides, the sacrificial animal had to be killed on the altar, and its blood sprinkled. Crucifixion was no altar sacrifice and Jesus bleeding all over the place from Roman torture and being nailed to the cross was hardly ritual "sprinkling."

So, obviously the "correct" interpretation of the OT depends on a lot of things, liturgical, theological, translational, doctrinal, etc. Usually the Jewish rejection of Christanity is assumed to be their "blindness" whereas reading a little deeper reveals that the blindness can be relative, and sometimes even intentional.

2,240 posted on 01/31/2011 1:10:05 AM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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