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To: Cronos; Dr. Eckleburg
...Augustine...did not draw Calvin's inference that all who are ever saved are predestined to remain in grace.

According to Augustine's logic, men believe because God prepares the will. Once God prepares the will in a believer, that person has obtained righteousness.
2,080 posted on 01/30/2011 6:16:53 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you for that (really, I'm not sarcastic with those like you, who sincerely wish to civilly discuss/debate/teach).

The excerpt you excerpted says
And yet the former, because they willed, believed; the latter, because they did not will believed not. Therefore mercy and judgment were manifested in the very wills themselves
as you said "According to Augustine's logic, men believe because God prepares the will".

This is Catholic doctrine Catechism
The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."Mt 4:17 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high.

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight
The Church teaches God's grace is necessary to enable man to be lifted out of sin

Note that Augustine does not have the belief that one cannot lose one's salvation
2,128 posted on 01/30/2011 11:51:57 AM PST by Cronos
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To: HarleyD; Quix; metmom; RnMomof7; HossB86; Gamecock; blue-duncan
"Therefore, the former will to believe; the latter do not will." Who does not know this? Who can deny this? But since in some the will is prepared by the Lord, in others it is not prepared, we must assuredly be able to distinguish what comes from God's mercy, and what from His judgment. "What Israel sought for," says the apostle, "he hath not obtained, but the election hath obtained it; and the rest were blinded, as it is written, God gave to them the spirit of compunction,—eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, even to this day. ... Here is mercy and judgment,—mercy towards the election which has obtained the righteousness of God, but judgment to the rest which have been blinded. And yet the former, because they willed, believed; the latter, because they did not will believed not. Therefore mercy and judgment were manifested in the very wills themselves."

A Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints by Augustine

According to Augustine's logic, men believe because God prepares the will. Once God prepares the will in a believer, that person has obtained righteousness.

AMEN, Harley, our resident Augustinian scholar. 8~)

2,140 posted on 01/30/2011 12:38:21 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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