Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: CynicalBear
Most and many theologians believe in the later date of Revelation only because they have been told it is a fact, like you've been told Revelation was written in the 90's or later and it is a fact. Does a majority of people make something true, no it doesn't. There is a small minority of people that believe Irenaeus statement or statements are taken out of context or misquoted or Irenaeus made unknowingly false statements, I can't remember how their arguments go but they sound pretty good to me. These same people believe that Revelation was written several years pre AD70., I hold to that belief and will continual to hold to that belief until some one can show me differently.

Never the less to base one's theology or his foundation of his theology on what the church fathers said is bad theology, good theology stands on it's own outside of what the church fathers said.

Use of the church fathers statements to further argue your beliefs, but don't use them to build your foundational beliefs, use them after your foundational beliefs are founded. I remember studying the seventh day Adventist arguments for the Sat worship from a historical point of view, they quoted several old church fathers from several early centuries to get their point across, I was convinced they were right, shortly after I shown differently, that they had misquoted the Church fathers and taken them out of context. That work that shown me differently was Walter Martin's book "The Kingdom of the cults" Now whether the Seventh day Adventist quote the church fathers correctly or incorrectly is beside the point that I really want to make, and that is if you can't argue your premillennialism view point outside of quoteing church fathers you have already failed in your theology or your search for the truth. Foundation Premillennialism needs to be built on the scripture it self, not church father statements. Same goes for the Postmillennial view point.

21 posted on 01/14/2011 9:01:25 PM PST by ReformedBeckite
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]


To: ReformedBeckite
John set the time frame as to what he saw in Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, “’I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, and what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Aisa: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”

I do not read the ‘day of the LORD’ as being a Sunday morning worship service. The reference to this is a specific particular time that is a dispensation of time. The so called ‘old’ is filled with references to ‘in that day’, ‘on that day’, and ‘day of the LORD’. The Bible is not nearly as disjointed as so many down through the ages have tried to make it appear.

30 posted on 01/14/2011 9:21:12 PM PST by Just mythoughts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]

To: ReformedBeckite
Irenaeus studied under Polycarp who was John’s deciple. Why would he have been off by more then 20 years? Surely we can use his recollection more then we can trust speculation.

Here is the quote from his book.

Irenaeus
Against Heresies
Book 5, Chapter 30, Paragraph 3

We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.

Titus Flavius Domitianus was Roman Emperor from 81 to 96. Domitian was the third and last emperor of the Flavian dynasty.

Proves that Irenaeus claimed that John wrote the book of Revelation toward the end of Domitians reign which would have been in the 90s long after 70AD.

31 posted on 01/14/2011 9:21:26 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]

To: ReformedBeckite

>> the point that I really want to make, and that is if you can’t argue your premillennialism view point outside of quoteing church fathers you have already failed in your theology or your search for the truth.<<

The theology isn’t based on the quotes of church fathers. In this case I am using Irenaeus statement of when Revelation was written to prove that John’s prophecy was written after 70AD which destroys Preterist interpretation of Revelation.


35 posted on 01/14/2011 9:26:14 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]

To: ReformedBeckite
"to base one's theology or his foundation of his theology on what the church fathers said is bad theology, good theology stands on it's own outside of what the church fathers said."

Wise words to live by.

89 posted on 01/15/2011 7:57:11 AM PST by Vegasrugrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]

To: ReformedBeckite
oh, the way Seventh Day Adventists misquote is awesome --> http://www.macgregorministries.org/seventh_day_adventists/egw_writtings.html
298 posted on 01/17/2011 4:05:35 AM PST by Cronos (Bobby Jindal 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson