Posted on 03/08/2011 10:19:18 AM PST by NYer
I agree, it's beautiful. However, it isn't a cookbook for HOW one becomes a member of God's Family. Don't forget that all of the Apostles were baptized. Christ commissioned them to baptize. The first thing that happened to St Paul after his conversion is his baptism. It is not some idle thing that we do.
I asked the question about “losing” one’s redemption because I’m honestly trying to understand the concept of one not feeling secure in their salvation. I’m truly perplexed by your statement...if you don’t think that a believer needs to confess their sins on an ongoing basis or do good deeds to ensure their salvation then it seems you are supporting a similar position as mine.
I would ask you to consider the Lord's Prayer. We pray that God will not lead us into temptation. What does that mean? God is not the author of temptation but rather our means of escape. "Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death" (James 1:13-15).
We do not say that telling a lie will condemn you to Hell. We also do not say that smoking a single joint makes you a drug dealer. However, they have a commonality in being gateways to more dangerous things. When we pray the Our Father, we are praying that we will not be left to follow our own appetites but to be shielded in temptation. As James says above... sin that festers and grows leads to death.
What kind of death? Remember that the Devil is referred to as a "murderer from the beginning." He didn't physically kill Adam and Eve. In fact, you could almost say that he was correct in telling them they would not die if they ate of the fruit... but it was a half-truth. They killed the Spirit of God within them. That is the Original Sin and that is the death they suffered... to be separated from God... and that is the death to which St James refers. I have often heard Hell described as eternal separation from God.
Therefore, we are to be diligent with our souls and our passions and confess our sins frequently to ensure we don't walk the path to embracing our sinful flesh to the peril of our eternal souls.
Can we reject our salvation? "Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been proved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him" (James 1:12). Clearly, the opposite is also true for those who do not endure.
God bless you.
“I’m not sure what point you were trying to make... but nothing you posted here contradicts what I’ve said.”
You said you didn’t know how original sin was passed from generation to generation. I took that to mean you were doubting it was. Scripture says otherwise, of course.
**Yes, even the thief needed saving. Everyone does. Hence, Christ’s sacrifice.**
The thief was faithful in his confession, but was still condemned to physical death. There was no need for him to offer a sacrifice (of course, he couldn’t anyway); the Christ was offering for all.
After Jesus Christ died, the temple curtain, that kept the holy place separate from everyone except the priests, was rent top to bottom. It’s symbolic of the Spirit now available to all that obey God’s call; and the Lord declared that souls must have his Spirit in order to be one with him.
The blood of Jesus Christ is applied to one’s soul by baptism in his name for the ‘remission of sins’ (Acts 2:38). It’s his command, nomatter what we think. Call it a test of faith, if you prefer.
The ‘heroes of faith’ had to follow God’s guidelines for faithfulness:
Abel offered a better sacrifice than Cain.
Enoch walked with God.
Noah moved with fear, building the ark.
Abraham, being told to leave home ago to another country, obeyed.
etc.
And therein is where we will never agree. You believe in extra-Biblical/extra-Scriptural authority. I take Galations 1:8 quite seriously. Anything being added to the Gospel, any other doctrine or extra-Biblical claim to authority is anathema. Adding to God’s already sufficient work through his Son is preaching another Gospel. In no way does the vatican possess any Biblical authority.
The Temple curtain ripped at the entrance to the Holy of Holies, thus allowing direct access to God through Christ (no earthly mediator needed - another difference between Catholics and Protestants.) If water had any “salvific” powers, I’d be covered every time I took a bath! No, in fact, Christ explicitly stated that what is of the flesh is of the flesh, but one must be born again - in Spirit. (I posted this earlier, not sure where though.)
You misunderstood. I was referring to a stain of sin being passed to those who had committed no sin themselves... that's a traditional, but flawed, way to see original sin. Rather, it's better viewed as something that was lost that successive generations had no way to get back... our family relationship with God. Please see my other posts for more on this.
No, I quoted but a small portion of applicable Bible verses to show the clear authority of the Church. I'm getting the impression you didn't bother to read them. Your rejection is not surprising... if you didn't reject the authority of the Church, you would be Catholic too.
God bless you.
Christ baptized His Apostles in the waters of the Jordan. He ordered His Apostles to baptize others. St Paul was baptized as the first act after his conversion. The Ethiopian recognized the need for baptism and requested it. You can minimize baptism with your words... but you can no more diminish the importance of baptism in ignorance than you can put out the sun by typing the word "darkness." (with apologies to C.S Lewis...)
**thus allowing direct access to God through Christ**
Kinda like: “For through him” (Christ) “we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father”. Eph. 2:18
“By a new and living way,” (the Spirit is life) “which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh” Heb. 10:20
**what is of the flesh is of the flesh**
He didn’t say “what is of the water is flesh”. He was addresssing Nicodemas reply about ‘a man entering his mother’s womb again’.
In the KJV:
There is no comma in “Except a MAN be born of water and of the Spirit”.
There IS a semicolon between “that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”.
In the passage where Jesus commanded, “He the believeth and is baptized shall be saved”, there is no comma.
In Luke 24:47, the Lord commanded his to his disciples “that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”.
They followed the Lord’s orders, later in Jerusalem, by the preaching of Peter to the lost souls that were convicted in their hearts and asking “Men and brethern, what shall we do?”, to which Peter replied: “Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE of you in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST for the REMISSION of SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. Acts 2:38
In various places in Acts you find the apostles going to quite an effort to spread the gospel, baptizing as many as would obey. 8:12-15; 10:48; 16:33; 19:5; and 22:16 (Paul’s testamony about his baptism).
**If water had any “salvific” powers**
“..eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. 1 Peter 2:20,21.
The answer of a good conscience toward God? Yes, by being baptized in the powerful name of Jesus for the remission of sins, one has performed a faithful act that is not our own works, but is God ordained for our salvation. That is when his blood is applied to your soul.
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