Posted on 03/12/2011 11:25:57 AM PST by Amerisrael
“My point was that Israeli or Messianic Jews have a right to be Jews in Israel and be respected by the Orthodox Rabbi’s”
Ethnicity is decided by your lineage and guided by Israel’s Rabbinical Council.
Religion is determined by your beliefs, practice, denomination. Unlike Jesus, his followers are not Torah observant Jews, they are Christians. End of story.
JadeEmperor:
The Talmud is full of arguments, and contradictions. How can you say there’s no tradition of Jews allowing for differences? Arguing over Talmud is how scholars learn it. Only a core set of commandments and tenets are set in stone.
You’re another one starting to reveal some rather antisemitic theories about Israel and the Jewish Community .... neither of which are actively trying to drive out non-Jews despite your hate filled paranoia.
Death will be swallowed up forever, Isaiah 25:8
Cross Reference:
Corinthians 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
Most of those prophecies are addressed in the Second Coming of Christ....
Again I am not telling anyone how to practice anything, I am just conversing with you why I think Messianic Jews are Jews...
Oh in that case, I think Muslims are the real Christians.
See how stupid that sounds?
With every Bible verse you provide, I’ll cross reference it to the Koran. Would that be constructive? Or do you lack any self awareness at all?
See, you can not violate ALL the basic principles of a religion, and then lay claim to the title. That kind of fabrication is a calculated subversion.
You have to PRACTICE JUDAISM to be a Jew.
If you practice Christianity you are not a Religious Jew.
Still confused?
Don’t be ridiculous and don’t stir up animosity when there is none, by using a Antisemetic bent on people like myself that are so far removed from being that kind of person it isn’t funny....Shame on you...
I converse with all kinds of people, and I am not so sensitive that I start attacking people because they do not agree with my belief system...
I don’t embrace the Essenes, I was saying that there was no Judaism uniformity in Ancient Israel when Jesus walked in that city..
What about the story of the Samaritans? You have heard the story of the *Good Samaritan*
"You’re another one starting to reveal some rather antisemitic theories about Israel and the Jewish Community .... neither of which are actively trying to drive out non-Jews despite your hate filled paranoia."Dude, I am a Jew (yes halachically, both Mom and Dad Jewish too.) I grew up in a former Communist country, where I since very early childhood was constantly reminded by non-Jews of my Jewishness (even though my family was pretty secular.) Growing up, I sometimes resented the stigma. But in a way, this was a good thing, it has not allowed me to forget my roots. Are you aware of the percentage of intermarriages among the secular American Jews? That they are rapidly assimilating in 2-3 generations? I only recognize that we ARE different and set apart from other nations in the world. That's all.
So you think *Mere Men* have the right to say who is a Jew? you think that a Messianic Jew that has been born to a Jewish Family has to deny his ethnic lineage to appease the Rabbi’s?
If that’s the case..Alrighty then...
I will just say: I am glad I do not have to take any direction from Man about who I am, and what I believe....
Thanks for chatting...
I’m not making a joke.. your posts are offensive, and you think you’re entitled to make them. Disgusting.
All of what would become Rambam’s 13 principles of Judaism were uniform beliefs defining and uniting ALL Jews during their history, including Jesus lifetime.
Oh great, I’m arguing with George Soros, apparently.
You still don’t get it. Too bad. Its too late and I rest my case.
“So you think *Mere Men* have the right to say who is a Jew?”
You’re calling Talmudic sages, and Biblical prophets “Mere Men” as if to denigrate.
Well...Jesus had no religious authority to Jews, and and the Jewish perspective is and always has been, that Christ was as you say, a “mere man”. The ethnicity of a George Soros, or a Jew for Jesus is trivial.
JadeEmperor - If your case is that Jews want to expel all non-Jews (which you said), then you have no case... just hate filled rhetoric best suited for Leftist crackpot sites.
Yes indeed. I will add that the harder they push their proselytizing, the harder the push-back they are going to get. They need to come to grips with that.
B'H
NO..What the Muslim terrorists do to the Jewish people are Disgusting and offensive..
What the Liberals, Atheists, and Secularists say about Israel and giving Jerusalem to the Palestinians is offensive and disgusting
I just dis-agree with you about Scripture and the Ancient World in Israel, if you can’t be grown up enough to talk to other’s that dis-agree with you, maybe the *Religion Forum* is a bit to much for you to handle....
They are *Mere Men* when it comes to the *Almighty* I AM WHO I AM..I worship GOD not man.........
Say what? Don’t Jews believe their Scriptures or the Commandments they follow originated from the almighty...?
Check yourself.
AH..No offense to you...However you have beliefs that come from Man not GOD, case in point who is a *Jew*
In the Tanakh and the gospels it identifies the gentiles/pagans and the jews....
I have never read anything saying that the Saul/Paul was not a Jew nor Matthew, nor Mark, nor Stephen nor Peter nor John...were (Apostate Jews*) that does not come from the Creator...
Commandments and traditions come from Organized Religion not GOD and his relationship with mankind....
Israel has a right to say who by ethnicity is a Jew and can make Alyaih..sp? however I do not think the Orthodox Rabbi’s have a right to harrass Messianic Jews and tell them they are not Jews, IMO that is IMMORAL...
Not all Jews observe the law properly or at all. That is not relevant because we are obligated to do so. That human beings do not always do what we are obligated to do is obvious.
You think that Jesus came to fulfill the law. That’s your religion and your saying it doesn’t make it so.
Why do you feel the need to be so pushy about your set of truths?
If you think it is wrong for “mere men” to decide who is a Jew, I will point out to you that is exactly what you are trying to do.
Doesn’t matter if you like it or agree with it, Jewish laws says that Christians/messianics are not Jews. The end.
Some don’t like to concept of matrilineal descent. It is painful. There are ways around it, called conversion.
“AH..No offense to you...However you have beliefs that come from Man not GOD, case in point who is a *Jew*”
You are in effect bashing the New Testament as well....which by the way was written by man, and not Jesus, or God.
If you don’t believe God spoke unto to Abraham, and Moses, and the rest, that’s fine... but that debunks Christianity too.
Your posts aren’t just grossly anti-Jewish but self defeating, and anti-Christian, considering where your first 5 books of scripture originate from. For a follower of Jesus to bash the credibility of the Jewish Covenant crosses the line. Doing so to perpetrate a fraud against Jews, and challenge mainstream Judaism, is unacceptable.
See the problem isn’t that you have a different view of scriptures (in which case, you would just be didactic and intolerant) or that you have a different view of ancient history (in which case you wouldn’t need to invalidate or discredit standard Judaic beliefs, or redefine Judaism for your own agenda).... the problem is something deeper and more prejudice.
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