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Full title: Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists: The Biblical Concept of Election Never Means Predestined to Salvation and Commonly is a Reference to Israel"
1 posted on 08/27/2011 2:14:12 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Great news! When Jesus said He died for the entire world and that salvation is available to everyone, He was telling the truth!

It turns out that God does not have a list of special people who are to be saved with everyone else going to hell, but the Scripture is true when it says that it's not God's will that any should perish.

We can all breathe a little easier now!

2 posted on 08/27/2011 2:16:27 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists...

Cuz Catholics (Kennedy, Napolitano, Sebelius, Biden, et al) can do more to hasten the Second Coming?

3 posted on 08/27/2011 2:19:03 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

You are truly blessed to know the mind of God.


4 posted on 08/27/2011 2:22:13 PM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
"Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists..."

Because God abhors religion.

6 posted on 08/27/2011 2:27:50 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Obama is bad luck for the US.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

God’s thoughts and actions are so far advanced above our ways. I did not get very far in the less than elementary attempt at explaining the thoughts of the one that made geniuses.


16 posted on 08/27/2011 3:20:25 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

We worship God, not Allah.

God reveals himself throughout scripture and especially through His incarnation.

Our God is not inscrutable. Calvinism is heresy.


20 posted on 08/27/2011 3:26:30 PM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I think this interpretation linking election with Israel only is in error. Election is not individual, but corporate - we are elect if we are “in Christ”.

All placed in Christ by believing the promise of God are elect.

“To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus...

...4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”

Lots of good info here:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/taxonomy/term/21


30 posted on 08/27/2011 4:02:41 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Why is this so seemingly hard to grasp to some? Israel was chosen by God to be a Kingdom of Priests to all the nations. Ex. 19:3-6; Isa:61:4-6; Zech. 8:13, 20-23. Through Israel would all the nations be blessed. God gave the Nation Israel the Law. And Gentile salvation was available only through the Nation Israel, either by becoming a proselyte: Esther 8:17, Exodus 12:48, Isaiah 56. Or put himself in the place of blessing by blessing Israel: Gen. 12:3, 1 Kings 17:10-15, Joshua 2:9-11, 11 Kings 5:15,17.

This is what the entire OT and Matt. Mark, Luke and John focuses on, Israel and the coming Messiah to set up His Kingdom on Earth whereby Israel would be a Kingdom of Priests. But when they rejected Him and His Messiahship, gentiles were basically without hope.

Until God raised up another apostle, Paul, and gave to him the Dispensation of the Grace of God. Whereby Jews and Gentiles are declared by God equal. Until Israel was blinded and set aside, though, they still had the opportunity to accept Christ and bring in His Kingdom. That is why Paul goes to the Jew first and performs Jewish practices. As long as they had that opportunity, they reigned supreme.

Once the Church the Body of Christ is raptured, God once again starts dealing with the Nation Israel, the middle wall of partition goes back up, and the tribulation will bring about those who will go into the Kingdom. Those who endure to the end. That Kingdom of Priests that God promised them.

Without Paul's Epistles and letters the whole Bible is about prophecy concerning a Nation. Israel. It is only in Paul's writings that we learn that God, during Israel's blindness, has given Gentiles a way to be saved apart from Israel. The Cross. It's called the Mystery Hid in God.

Basically the Bible can be divided into two parts, prophecy and mystery.

33 posted on 08/27/2011 4:05:12 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Pardon my ignorance, but... what did Luther have to say on the subject?

TIA

49 posted on 08/27/2011 4:45:41 PM PDT by OKSooner (When someone tells you who they are, believe them.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
From the article-In the Old Testament, we see times when God chose and people chose.

If God chose "some" people, then God elected "some" people. And thus you have a very difficult problem that I have always grabbled with for over thirty years. Why did Able find favor with God? Why did God consider Noah righteous? Why did God appear to Abraham and not his brothers? And, to say this is limited to the Old Testament is wrong. God chose to appear to Paul on the Damascus Road when He did not reveal Himself to any other on that same journey. And let not forget about the Ethopian.

It isn't the term "election" that I have a problem with, even though that term is used scores of time in the New Testament. In fact, I can't find the term "elect" anywhere in the Old Testament although "choosen" is used quite frequently and it is most often used where God specifically states, "I have choosen....". Statements in John and Romans are much more problematic. Statements like,

There are many more of these verses especially in John and Romans. In point of fact, a person cannot read and fully understand John and Romans without a clear and right understanding of election. I never could. I simply would skip the verses I couldn't understand. In regards to John 5:21, I noticed that the footnote in my bible stated that it doesn't know what the verse is talking about and went on with some lame explanation which made no sense. Hence the problem with people who fail to grasp that God saves those whom He will.

There are also far more issues. Our Lord forgave some people "your sins are forgiven" yet He also condemned some people "your sins remain". He very clearly states that He chose Judas and allow Satan to entered, yet He protected Peter who Satan wanted as well. Yes, our Lord certainly condemned some people while forgiving others. And He made it clear that it wasn't He who condemn people but it is our very nature. But like Judas and Peter, He is the one who decides on whom to show mercy. That is the prerogative of God.

The term "foreknowledge" was NEVER meant as foreknowledge is a general reference to God having known the Israelites beforehand. This shows a very poor understanding of church history, the scripture and of the omnipotent of God. Foreknowledge is ALWAYS used in terms of God knowing the future events because God directs the events knowing the choices we will make. Thus He knew exactly how Pharaoh would react to what plagues He gave. Certainly He could have done the killing of the first born first, but chose not to in order to spoil Egypt. He knew that King Solomon would sacrifice his children on the alter of Moab and prophesied this as far back as Moses. And He knows all of the sins we will EVER create because He died for them-not because He can see them but simply because He knows us. To think that God looks down some long time corridor to see what we will do is to say that God doesn't influence history.

In election, the problem really is man-not God. Consider these verses:

And there you have it. Our Lord knows what evil lurks in our hearts. He would not even entrust himself to us. Does it make sense that He would entrust us with our salvation?

146 posted on 08/28/2011 3:29:07 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

While I am firmly in the dispensational premillenial camp, this article does not adequately deal with Ephesians 1.


154 posted on 08/28/2011 6:08:05 AM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; All
Speaking as one of FR's resident atheists, I want to thank everybody for this thread.

It's pretty clear to me that if there is a Christian God, he's of the Calvinist sort, who way back then at the big bang decided, "Notary Sojac is gonna be one of those who'll never believe in Me".

And I've enjoyed the great example of Christian fellowship which fairly shines through all the posts here. Almost as entertaining as the LDS threads before they all got the zot...

163 posted on 08/28/2011 7:40:12 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (Nothing will cure the economy but debt deleveraging, deregulation, and time.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists

Of course he doesn't elect Calvinists. He elects soon to be Christians.

204 posted on 08/28/2011 6:02:05 PM PDT by Gamecock (Here I raise mine Ebenezer)
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