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To: Mr Rogers
>>Golly - Abraham didn’t make the covenant with God, but neither did God make it with him while Abraham slept.<<

Why do you stop reading and make your assumptions? How about reading the entire version of evernts.

12And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

Not sleeping you say? Now while he is sleeping God makes the covenant.

13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Now here is where the covenant is sealed. Abram still sleeping by the way, and the deep sleep happened before it was even dark as we see in the next verse.

17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

You really need to use all of scripture, not just pick verses to try to support error.

89 posted on 08/27/2011 6:56:32 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

“You really need to use all of scripture, not just pick verses to try to support error. “

You might try taking your own advice.

You start in verse 12: “And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram...”, but:

“6And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.”

Yes, verse 6 came BEFORE verse 12! The covenant followed the belief. It did not cause the belief, and it did not cause Abraham to be counted as righteous. The covenant FOLLOWED faith. Faith did not result from the covenant, which came AFTER the faith.

In like manner, we repent and believe, and become part then of the New Covenant. The New Covenant follows belief, just as the Old Covenant did. In the words of Paul, “...we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”

The word access: “Old word from prosagw, to bring to, to introduce. Hence “introduction,” “approach.” Elsewhere in N.T. only Ephesians 2:18; 3:12.”

We are introduced to God’s grace - we meet it, approach it - by faith. Not election.

And faith? “1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ

b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God”

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4102&t=NASB

Or to use the dictionary definition: “confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another’s ability.”

In this case, we have faith in God’s ability to save us, and to take us to the final destination chosen by God: To be conformed to Jesus Christ.


99 posted on 08/27/2011 7:47:04 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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