Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim
CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow

Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.

But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.

“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.

“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”

Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.

But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.

“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”

It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”

(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Islam; Theology
KEYWORDS: blackmuslims; islam; keithellison; muslim
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 4,601-4,6204,621-4,6404,641-4,6604,661-4,676 last
To: Mad Dawg
TO sum up,in this one little sector of the front, I am trying to distinguish the nature of intercessory prayer from the issue of "praying to the dead." And my contention is that, as regards the "essentia", what we ask the saints in heaven to do for us is, in our minds, no different -- in essence -- from what is asked of us when somebody puts up a prayer request on Free Republic. If that's a little clear, then it seems that EITHER those opposed to the intercession of the saints in heaven have to show that WHOM something is being asked for changes the essentia of what is being asked, OR we can abandon the argument and move on to the problem of addressing prayers to the so-called "dead."

First of all, I don't want you to think I was avoiding your question all day today. I wasn't. :o)

I do not think the "argument" is so much that those in Heaven do anything different than a fellow Christian does with prayer on Earth, but rather (1) how do we know for certainty that the "saint" is indeed IN heaven and (2) what are our directions for requesting prayers from others. I think we agree that there are no Scriptural mandates for praying to those already dead. We've already talked about the commands to not seek to contact the dead so I look at the idea of "praying to the dead" as no different.

In reading some of the New Advent articles about the subject, they speak of the doctrine of the "communion of the saints" as establishing both prayers "to" departed Saints as well as the doctrine of Purgatory for prayers "for" those already dead, not "yet" saints. I reject the idea of even a need for Purgatory - since it is in Christ that we are cleansed of all sin - so no one can be or needs to be prayed for in some intermediate place so that they can more quickly, or less painfully, proceed to Heaven.

As for the praying to the Saints for their intercession, like I said, I don't see any such thing in Scripture ever being encouraged but it's not my place to tell anyone they can't or shouldn't. What I think happens with some is they imagine someone whom they "know" is already in God's presence in Heaven having an "in" or special audience to God's ear which has advantages over asking a mere mortal still here on Earth to pray for them. Even more so with Mary presuming she can not be refused in what she asks of her son, Jesus. That just kind of gives me an icky feeling, no offense.

So when you speak of WHOM something is being asked for changes the essentia of what is being asked, in light of what I said above, the "whom" being asked to pray for us/with us certainly does essentially change the prayer. It makes no difference if the Saint goes through Jesus to the Father, because that isn't really the issue so much as whether or not asking an already "beatified" saint over a "maybe" saint here grants an edge or advantage. If it did, then why even bother asking mere humans to pray for us? Why did Paul encourage the believers to pray for him, his ministry, each other, etc.? Sounds like, if prayers to Saints was more advantageous, he would have rather encouraged that.

4,661 posted on 09/24/2011 7:48:43 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4660 | View Replies]

To: All
Getting back to the subject of this thread - the first, and only (I think) Muslim serving in the U.S. Congress - I wonder what he thinks of Obama’s upbringing as a Muslim and his “conversion” to Christianity. I have a feeling that Obama as well as Ellison did not make their “faith” backgrounds an issue in their getting elected. I highly doubt either would have been elected so soon after the 9-11 terrorist strike had they boldly asserted their faith with pride. I wonder if America will ever welcome Muslim leadership freely. It's not a matter of prejudice but understanding of what that religion really teaches and believes that gives me pause and I don't think I am alone.
4,662 posted on 09/24/2011 8:25:22 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4661 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
I would rather wait for a good answer than get one less good right away.

And, to me, this little phase of the argument is a morality play about why it is good (sometimes at least) to lower the head and keep charging at a question. Shortly after the headache begins, other things begin to shake loose.

What I'm seeing is what YOU see in the whole "intercession of the saints" thing is something I would call "conjuring." I hereby explicitly, unreservedly, and entirely reject that as both spiritually perilous and totally lousy theology.

The way through the conundrum of "God (or Jesus) cannot refuse Mary anything," is to recall Mary's greatest word in Scripture: Be it unto me according to your will.

We hold that as the Premier(e) among the the (you might say) thoroughly sanctified, Mary enjoys a will thoroughly united to God's. He does not refuse her because her first and last word is, "Fiat mihi secundum Verbum Tuum" (Okay, in Aramaic, not Latin.)

If I EVER get my life in order and can find the Latin text, I am going to attempt a translation of Augustine's letter to Proba on prayer. In it is the answer to my dear daughter's to ask which she called me all the way from Californica: Why does Jesus tell us to pray "Thy will be done"? He's going to do it anyway, isn't He?

It is not for me to say why Jesus did something, but surely in that petition we are committing ourselves to give God our assent, to hand over our wills to Him, aren't we? We are proleptically taking the stance of the blessed.

"Lord, in my dreams, with my waking thought, throughout the day until thought limps back into dream, I resist you. I put my choices first and yours second or even further back. Yet Lord, you know that I long for your good, having tasted enough of mine to know it is flat and disgusting. So now formally, but looking forward to the day when I can, by your grace, mean it thoroughly and sincerely, I say,'Thy will be done.'"

SO, when I think of the intercession of the saints, I do not and have not thought for decades of "conjuring", of making God, through Mary, an offer he cannot refuse. As I say, it is, strictly speaking, unthinkable.

Yes, I do light candles ($3 a pop for a 24+ hour candle) to Mary and to Thomas Aquinas, and if we had a rack of 'em in front of the icon I'd light 'em to Dominic as well. But I do so mostly because I like to do a pretty thing, and flickering candle are pretty things. And yes, I, speaking exceedingly loosely, would say that Anthony of Padua, through his "mighty intercession", helped me find some very important missing files yesterday.

But I note that when I note that a petition has been granted, I thank the saint AND God. And it intrigues and delights me that in one of the set prayers in the breviary we ask God to let Mary intercede for us.

I love image this prompts in me. First I go to Mary and say, "Please talk to God for me." Then I go to God and say, "Is it okay if Mary speaks for me, please?"

But, just to tidy up, IF -- as I think it does NOT -- the idea of the intercession of the saints ESSENTIALLY included this 'conjuring' aspect, THEN it would be different in essence from asking fellow freepers to pray for us, AND it would be a bad thing, IMHO, tending to the shattering of monotheism and the promotion of superstition and magical thinking.

In that connection, did you see this yesterday? Our Lady of Copacabana

Eew, Ick! But seriously, if some people want to practice devotion to Mary in front of an ugly statue swathed in ridiculous damasks, well, I don't care. But when they start saying they're not taking the statue out of the church because "she doesn't like to be outside," then, right there, I draw the line. It's a STATCHOO people! Keep it inside if you want to protect the garish halo or keep the equatorial sun off the damasks. But get clear in yo' HAIDS!

You could even say, "We get the impression that nuestra Señora doesn't want this statue carried hither and thither." But "She doesn't like to be outdoors"? The Inquisition is never around when you really need it!

4,663 posted on 09/25/2011 3:14:38 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4661 | View Replies]

To: boatbums

Hello -

You wrote:
“....As for the praying to the Saints for their intercession, like I said, I don’t see any such thing in Scripture ever being encouraged but it’s not my place to tell anyone they can’t or shouldn’t. What I think happens with some is they imagine someone whom they “know” is already in God’s presence in Heaven having an “in” or special audience to God’s ear which has advantages over asking a mere mortal still here on Earth to pray for them. Even more so with Mary presuming she can not be refused in what she asks of her son, Jesus. That just kind of gives me an icky feeling, no offense.

So when you speak of WHOM something is being asked for changes the essentia of what is being asked, in light of what I said above, the “whom” being asked to pray for us/with us certainly does essentially change the prayer. It makes no difference if the Saint goes through Jesus to the Father, because that isn’t really the issue so much as whether or not asking an already “beatified” saint over a “maybe” saint here grants an edge or advantage. If it did, then why even bother asking mere humans to pray for us? Why did Paul encourage the believers to pray for him, his ministry, each other, etc.? Sounds like, if prayers to Saints was more advantageous, he would have rather encouraged that.....”

I am thinking that there weren’t too many canonized saints during the life of St. Paul....

I am wondering what you make of Romans 8:26-39 ? The Holy Spirit intercedes for us, for the prayers of the saints, and even more Jesus Christ intercedes for all.

Thanking you,


4,664 posted on 09/25/2011 12:57:16 PM PDT by shoelessbuddha (thank you,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4661 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
The body sleeps and will be resurrected; the soul and spirit are alive forever more, with many destined for separation from God's presence by refusal of His deliverance. The soul and spirit are already timeless in the sense that those aspects of our being do not die with bodily dissolution. The reality of the body 'sleeps', but will be re-created in the Last resurrection.

"I have come down from heaven--not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day." John 6:38-39


?

Raised them UP from WHAT?

4,665 posted on 09/26/2011 4:53:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4625 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Ping to above


4,666 posted on 09/26/2011 4:54:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4628 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

Nana...

subtract 4000!


4,667 posted on 09/26/2011 4:57:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4666 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; MHGinTN
>>Raised them UP from WHAT?<<

Raise the body. Remember in Revelation where the souls who came out of the tribulation are in heaven crying for revenge on those who killed them? Their bodies have not been raised yet.

“Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes” (Revelation 7:15-17 NKJV).

Those are the saints who have come to know the Lord during the tribulation and have lost their lives for their beliefs. Their bodies will be raised and glorified after Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation.

4,668 posted on 09/26/2011 6:49:46 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4665 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Paul indicates that then living believers will be ‘be caught up together with them (the dead in Christ who rise first) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.’ (I Thess 4:17) From this I surmise that we believers will be then in the new bodies, and the new bodies for others comes later. Also, the Rapture of His Bride will be so astonishing an event that even witnessing it, unbelievers will fall for a great SAtanic lie to explain it away. He Who has been restraining will no longer be upon the Earth, and the evil will pour forth like locusts upon the souls of unbelievers.


4,669 posted on 09/26/2011 7:21:43 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4668 | View Replies]

To: shoelessbuddha; boatbums
I think the critical point for boatbums is that praying to the saints in heaven sounds to her like conjuring. And we do have to admit that there are a lot of those newspaper advertisements to St. Jude (or whoever) that seem to say if you pray this prayer and then buy an advertisement you will get what you pray for.

So it's not surprising that some would conclude that we peddle cheap magic. We have to live and to teach to counter-act by word and example the superstitious teaching of such folks.

4,670 posted on 09/26/2011 8:31:43 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4664 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg

Mad Dawg it’s a lot like the people who want the St. Joseph statue to bury upside in order to sell their house.

I have realtors who are not Catholic come into my store to buy one for their clients.

Is is superstition? Yep, you bet it is.

I just ask them to treat this with respect and remember to unbury the statue when their house sells.

I also tell them not to even think about asking a priest to bless this.


4,671 posted on 09/26/2011 6:52:28 PM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (Catholic, Easter vigil 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4670 | View Replies]

To: Not gonna take it anymore; boatbums

The people who engage is that kind of superstitious conjuring would probably not benefit from reading the last few pages of this thread. I kind of wish their pastors and bishops would read it though.

Chogyam Trumka (sp?),a Vajrayana lama who knew Thomas Merton and who came to this country to preside over a very weird and sometimes scandalous organization in Boulder,CO, wrote a book with an excellent title,”Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism”.

Fr Jacek Buda (no kidding!) late of Charlottesville, now of Phoenix, speaks of “bottom line Christianity”, where the preoccupation is not an encounter with Christ in which everything we have is placed at hazard, but with “What will you do for me when I die and what will you do for me in the meantime and what have you done for me lately?”

And when this mindset, the miracles and consolations focus, dominates a Catholic, it SHOULD scandalize us, and, as recent posts show, it appropriately scandalizes our non-Catholic brethren.

Where’s the Inquisition when we really need it. [wry, sorrowful grin.]

Boatbums, your concept of the intercession of the saints is wrong, but your having it is partly my responsibility for not having the, ah, intestinal fortitude to rebuke boldly and clearly my brethren who reduce this (at least to us) fundamental doctrine of the working out of Pentecost into a series of contemptible and greedy parlor tricks. To paraphrase Cicero, “Nos, nos fratres sororesque, desumus.”


4,672 posted on 09/27/2011 3:24:42 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4671 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
Just for Kicks:
Of course you are unworthy. But when do you hope to be worthy?...All the good works that we could ever do would never make us worthy, in this sense, of Holy Communion. God alone is worthy of Himself, He alone can make us worthy of Him, and He alone can make us worthy with His own worthiness.
-- St. Catherine of Siena

4,673 posted on 09/27/2011 7:04:54 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4672 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
If you feel that way. you probably are failed...
Why else did you feel it important to share that with us? Why else was it necessary to say you are an ex-Catholic.
4,674 posted on 10/03/2011 9:01:16 PM PDT by JSteff ((((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.))))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: JSteff

There was a good reason to do so.

but...........

“Comment #5 Removed by Moderator”


4,675 posted on 10/04/2011 2:58:58 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4674 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
Nice try, but you answered NONE of the questions I listed. We are still waiting. Referring to a removed post is not an answer.

You are a slippery case aren't you?
4,676 posted on 10/04/2011 7:20:23 PM PDT by JSteff ((((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.))))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4675 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 4,601-4,6204,621-4,6404,641-4,6604,661-4,676 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson