Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
Protestants constantly call to Catholics here to come out of the “cult” and it is unfortunate that some heed that call.
And they don’t become just protestants, they become other pseudo Christian faith.
And now we know, what it takes to get a wow, after all that has been said here, that is it?
WOW
I think all to many parents use religion and the child's openness and need for God as a way to try to control with guilt. I think parents don't get how cripplingly guilty children can feel or how hard it is for a child to tread the path of virtue.
So there are a lot of adults who still are essentially pathological about guilt and God. You may hear from the pulpit of the marvellous love of God, but when yu get home you get, "How do you think Jesus feels when he sees you doing something like that?" That's going to leave a mark! I will join my prayers to yours. I also would like your mother to trust in Jesus.
He was before he became a priest, a bishop and then a cardinal.
I guess the joke's on you then. I'm not a Calvinist.
Read Ephesians, Chapter 2 after you carefully read 2 Tim 2:15. Then if you want to know “divide it into what exactly?”, I’ll tell you. If you’re not interested in reading Ephesians chapter 2, then you’re really not interested in rightly dividing the word of truth.
I made no such claim. But oh well - so much for France being an officially Catholic state in the sixteenth century, and so much for the Inquisition sentencing Servetus to death in absentia twenty years earlier than his execution in Geneva:
On Apr. 4, 1533, Servetus was arrested at Vienne and examined on the two days following, when he denied that he was Servetus, claimed to have adopted the name of that scholar that he might measure himself with Calvin in dialectics, and offered to make complete retractation. On Apr. 7 he was permitted to escape, either to guard the archbishop and other noted friends of Servetus against further embarrassment, or to save the Inquisition from being made a catspaw for Calvin. The trial, however, continued, and on June 17 Servetus was condemned to the stake, his books and his effigy being burned in his stead.
So the texts I turn to are those about the authority of the Church. But there is a funny thing. The Sola Scriptura attitude is, IMHO, anti-Incarnational. I mean there is this vague id of the Church hanging around until it has a Bible. And then it forsakes it.
But leaving the forsaking question aside, I don't think that can be right. They were depending on the Twelve, and then on those who had seen Christ, and then on those who knew those who had seen Christ. And at the same time there were writings. And, as time went by the Fathers all severally found a need to say, "This writing is good, that one, not so much, and THAT one is poison." I have images like titration or things precipitating out of solution, or even panning for gold, which is a process of using water to wash the lighter dross from the heavier (more glorious, for those with a Jones for Hebrew), more precious stuff.
That seems to me to be far more likely, an environment where Scripture is discovered hand in hand with tradition, with talking to a manifestly holy man like Polycarp, who knew John, who knew Jesus in the flesh.
Mark I am posting to you because you have a clue about this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TEL_7TS5FE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA
Nobody likes a smart alec. :-)
On April 4, 1553, Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic authorities, and imprisoned in Vienne. He escaped from prison three days later. On June 17, he was convicted of heresy by the French inquisition, and sentenced to be burned with his books. An effigy and his books were burned in his absence. (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Michael_Servetus )
Then let’s look at the first guy who did the questioning Matthieu Ory and see what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say about him.
Inquisitor and theologian, b. at La Caune, 1492; d. at Paris, 1557. Entering the Dominican Order at the age of eighteen, he studied, he studied in the convent of St-Jacques, Paris, and at the Sorbonne, obtaining the licentiate in theology, 6 February, 1527. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11333a.htm) Obviously not a protestan reformer.
Do we need to do research on whether or not the French inquisition was Catholic or Protestant?
On August 13, he attended a sermon by Calvin at Geneva. He was immediately recognized and arrested after the service[6] and was again imprisoned and had all his property confiscated.
If you look at the dates Servetus was first convicted by the Catholics. As I said in an earlier post, both the Catholics and Calvin and his reformers were both complicit.
Oh, btw, Alex and I have had private freepmail corespondence about this and other things long before these last posts by you. Didn’t need you in the conversation it seems.
ROFL Thanks Alex!
I said to someone tonight that the only thing lacking in the suffering of Christ is you.
Yeah. That's why I said what I said about it being too deep for words. Leaving aside all that inspiration stuff, Paul was simply brilliant, IMHO. But he knew that he'd written Romans and Galatians. He must have known who shocking that verse would be. So, he must, I think, having been trying to express something beyond words.
Christ would have us IDENTIFY WITH HIS SUFFERINGS in a more existential way.p>Right now I feel pretty good. I can play theology games. But let the Lord "appoint" a toothache ..., or other subtler sorrows.
Then imagine saying, "Lord,I can barely mean what I'm saying here, but I know suffering that makes one crazy, and if somehow this suffering is of use to you, then please accept it. I will try to offer it as you give me the grace to do so.
Then there's the other side: Praying the Rosary and meditating on the scourging, and suddenly you feel a lash. For a micro second your ribs ache at the kinetics of the blow and your skin is seared by the laceration. Even if it is all "psychosomatic", still...
And you with me. I have enjoyed our discussion every time we have had occasion. I do want you to know that I believe in my heart that you are truly a Christian in the real sense of the word. Though we disagree on many issues concerning the RCC I believe you are sincere in your faith that Jesus alone saves. Rely on Him alone.
Oh, btw, I also have heard enough odd theology out of many protestants.
I made no such claim. But oh well - so much for France being an officially Catholic state in the sixteenth century, and so much for the Inquisition sentencing Servetus to death in absentia twenty years earlier than his execution in Geneva:
Very good. I had forgotten this and merely referred to your post. Thank you.
That makes a lot of sense, given the rather exhaustive care lavished on the training of those who would form the initial clergy of the Church by Our Lord.
Nope. Complete nonsense.
>>The magic number is 188 days and so on (9/15 or 9/16) some earthly catastrophe perhaps even the rapture will occur
Nope. Complete nonsense.
>>If the rapture happens, which one of your buddies is most likely to go<<
I have no idea. Only God knows their heart.
>>and just the Catholics be admitted or just a few of your type and Catholics and a few of the others or some other esoteric combo<<
Only those who are written in the Lambs Book of Life. Those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior and don’t rely on their own human effort.
>>How do we address you if it is you who are left behind ?<<
I’ll be gone so don’t worry about me. Those who are left behind will need to read Revelations.
Jesus is specifically speaking of His coming in glory.
One may try to know this by studying Revelations, but Jesus says there will be wars and rumors of wars, and all manner of bad things happening.
In every age since He ascended, men and women have tried to predict His return.
All I know is that if it happens when I am alive, I’ll know then.
The Church does not declare this about Mary to aggrandize itself or to put her between Jesus and us as some type of obstacle. Rather she is, as I said before, the first and most perfect disciple who’s very life draws us to her Son because in her we see the fulfillment of the promises that God has made to us through the son, Jesus.
The doctrine of Mary’s Assumption was formally declared at the request of thousands of clergy and millions of the faithful. It was a part of the Deposit Faith for centuries though the doctrine had not been declared.
In the Greek Orthodox Church it is celebrated as the Dormition of Mary or Theotokos, God bearer.
The feast day for the assumption has been August 15th for over a thousand years and is celebrated by Christians throughout the universal Church among all of the various
Rites.
Though not explicitly stated in Scripture, which means nothing more than that Mary had not died before the last of the original texts, excluding Revelations had been written.
It is believed that she died, or as the Greek believe, fell asleep in Ephesus where she lived with John or in Jerusalem.
There is not one city or holy place in the world which claims to have her remains, though the veneration of the remains of martyrs and saints has been evident from the earliest days of the Church.
As I said in another post, in light of the fact that from Scripture we know for sure that there have been humans which God has taken body and soul to be with Him in heaven, it is not unScriptural nor does it contradict Scripture to believe that Jesus has done this for Mary. The woman who carried him in His womb and who followed Him to the cross and who was with the Apostles when the Holy Spirit came upon them on Pentecost.
Those who protest this claim they do so out of love for us and fear for our souls. Hogwash.
PURE MYTH...
The Berean searched the Septuagint. Which includes the dreaded Deuterocanonicals that are shunned by Protestants. They had no NT. Are you a Judaizer who only studies the OT now?
PURE MYTH...
By the way, the Septuagint, the Greek OT used by Christ and most of the world, predates the hypothetical Council of Jamnia by centuries.
PURE MYTH...
i see you didn’t follow the link I posted regarding the understanding of the word dividing in that passage from the KJV.
I read Ephesians 2 and your new translation of 2 Tim.
I was right in the way I used that word and you offered a knee jerk reaction ready to pounce as if I hadn’t.
Neither verse discounts the Catholics view of both faith and works which is that works are the fruits of a true faith.
Try reading the Gospels instead of just St. Paul and you will read all about the works Jesus tells us to do.
I think the best advice is to ask the Holy Spirit to guide us and lead us to truth.
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