My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim

CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

[smvoice]

The question could be reversed: How does James 2:14-17 correlate to Eph. 2:8,9? The first question that should be asked is "Who said this?" Then "Who were they talking to?" And finally "What did they say?"

James obviously said the Scripture you stated. Paul obviously said the Scripture I stated. Who was James talking to? Read the introduction salutation: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD." Hmmm. he was talking to the Jews.

Who was Paul talking to? "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus." The Christians. Those who were saved in the dispensation of Grace given to Paul by the revelations of the risen Lord.

If James was talking to the twelve tribes, and Paul was talking to a group of people where there is neither Jew nor Greek, then it obvious they were talking about different dispensations in God's plan for man.

The dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul to preach for a specific time period. In order to form the Church the Body of Christ. Once the Body is complete, the dispensation of grace is over. Romans through Philemon is that dispensation period. The age we are now in.

Once the grace period is over, the tribulation period begins, the wrath of God is poured out, Christ returns and sets up His kingdom on earth. God is once again dealing with Jews and Gentiles on a different basis. The middle wall of partition is back up. This is the Dispensation of the Millenial Kingdom will be in effect. THe final stages of Israel's prophetic program. You will find information on these last day saints in Hebrews through Revelation. WHich is why James wrote to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. And why Hebrews was written to THE HEBREWS.

There is no contradiction. There is only an inability to read God's word, rightly divided. And it happens to those who want to replace Israel as God's chosen people.

[CynicalBear]

>> Surely your interpretative skills can reconcile this apparent contradiction between your words and the Words of Our Savior.<<

James2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Absolutely. When a person is saved he/she is promised the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He/she now has a new heart. With the influence of the Holy Spirit the desires change from wanting to follow carnal desires to wanting to follow the guiding of the Holy Spirit. With the guiding of the Holy Spirit there will be a desire to do the “works” such as helping those in need etc. It’s not the works that save but the works show that the person truly has faith. It’s a natural affect of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It’s an indication of the faith. “by their fruits ye shall know them”. Fruits of what? Fruits of the Spirit.

>> Now that you agree the rapture/dispensation/ Harold Camping are complete nonsense would you care to make a prediction on the end of times?<<

One thousand years after the battle of Armageddon.

>> If as you say "Only God knows their heart" how much of an allowance does He make for faulty interpretations and is there a pass fail grade given by God for erroneous interpretations?<<

“believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved-and your house”. That means believe that Jesus is who He says He is and is the only way to the Father and eternal life with Him. He has paid the total and complete price for our salvation.

>> "Those who are left behind will need to read Revelations" doesn't this advice seem questionable as Luther wished to excise this work from scripture. Why read a book the reformers felt not inspired Are you advising these to swim the Tiber?.<<

I couldn’t care less what the reformers said. I’ll rely on Jesus words and what the Apostles wrote.

No mysticism or experiential knowledge other then relying on God’s written word. Self knowledge that doesn’t line up with scripture is dangerous at best. Nice try setting a trap though.

[CynicalBear]

I forgot one.

>>Is the Lambs Book of Life that you mentioned the same document that is reviewed on the Day of Atonement each year to ascertain ones place on the road to eternal salvation?<<

You must have missed the change after Christ. I’m also a Gentile so…..

[boatbums]

...he's not dead...he's resting...

[boatbums]

There are many Scripture references to teachings and interpretations of teachings not included in actual Scripture itself, not the least of which is:

Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. - John 21:25

I wonder if God inspired John to write this in the closing chapter of his gospel so that the Catholic Church would have carte blanche to invent whatever else they could think up and pass off as one of those things Jesus did, or taught, or said, or...?

[stonehouse01]

Faith without works is Dead. This means we have to work at it-— we are not Saved by Faith alone - just because we love Christ — we must work for our whole lives and run the race .

[CynicalBear]

I know this. I had never realized how loose and free the RCC is with interpretation so they can take control. They make something up and proclaim “well scripture doesn’t say it didn’t happen”.

[Iscool]

If by reason of his own misdeeds he deserves to be expelled from said society, repentance and the reparatory penitential rite, a second baptism, as it were, permit his return.

That's a new one for me...Wonder if they have to use soap with that one...

[Judith Anne]

What shallow is - is taking it personally. Unless you devised the Vatican/RCC man made teachings.

Well, how's this, then? So far, I have not met, online, any protestant preaching TRUTH at me or any other Catholic who has evidenced God's Love. You would think, wouldn't you, that if you actually have the way, the truth and the life of Christ, it would show somewhere? It is my personal experience of Christ and His Salvation that genuine peace, kindness, forbearance, understanding, humility, and simple courtesy would just FLOW out of our Protestant brothers and sisters who are simply steeped in Holy Scripture like so many tea bags (NOT meant in the rude way, but like the Lipton beverage). With all that "rightly dividing, teaching of God's will and heart, understanding from the Holy Spirit, ALL that good stuff, I just don't get it.

I'm open to it. It was reading the Bible that taught me to love Christ. Everyone here dogpiled me when I gave my honest opinion of Paul's epistles. NOT ONE OF YOU, [yeah, I know, poor widdle me] reminded me of any of the truth and beauty in Paul's labors, and even I can find plenty, hardly looking.

Some of you have carefully insulted me, tnen had the gall to tell me to turn the other cheek.

You are all failures. I see none of you practising what you so loudly preach. When faced with someone who is angry, you attack. Without exception. Is that Christlike? A martian would have to wonder what you were reading, because by your behavior, it wasn't the Holy Bible.

I never pretended, nor do I now, to be anything except a sinner in need of Christ's Mercy. Yet you have all gone out of your way to have plenty of fun at my expense. Did any of you reach out, try to evangelize? I think that's just one more reason why I hate protestants and will never be one. Ever. Because the truth is not in you. At all. Pride is, you bet. What will that get you?

[CynicalBear]

>> Faith without works is Dead. This means we have to work at it-— we are not Saved by Faith alone - just because we love Christ — we must work for our whole lives and run the race .<<

Well, tell ya what. You go right ahead and try to earn your salvation and tell the rest of us how it works out for ya. K?

[Natural Law]

"I wonder if God inspired John to write this in the closing chapter of his gospel so that the Catholic Church would have carte blanche to invent whatever else they could think up and pass off as one of those things Jesus did, or taught, or said, or...?"

I thought all you needed was Scripture and had no need of any other input, guidance or advice. At least Catholics have a teaching authority to consult.

[Judith Anne]

Just another lovely Christian comment from our Protestant brother CB. Thanks for confirming my opinion.

[Iscool]

Did any of you reach out, try to evangelize?

Most if not all of us...Constantly...

[boatbums]

It's a good thing you posted the verses so that anyone can go to the verse to see if what ScripturCatholic.com interprets them to say actually IS what they say. Was the little This is why there are 30,000 different Protestant churches and one Holy Catholic Church. snippet added by them as well? If so, you may want to refer them to the truth about that false figure so that they don't keep embarrassing themselves.

[bronx2]

Your comment on Pub 78 is funny and demonstrates your lack of knowledge in this area.

That phony IRS Pub 78 does indeed list all of the entities which want their contributors to receive a tax deduction. This document coupled with F990 which describes the nature of the entity is the empirical evidence for the existance of at least 30,000 discrete entities of evangelical persuasion.

Show some probative evidence to refute my assertion or remain silent on this issue. You offered no probative evidence just self serving testimony. Oh Well you know where your credibility stands.

These documents are open for public inspection so have at it. Does your denial in this matter demonstrates a low level of credibility in other areas?

Your statement about Pub 78 without any verification is prima facie evidence that you need to be silent in areas in which you have no expertise.

It appears you use the "I believe" to enhance the credibility of your interpretation of scripture. A magisterium of one among 30,000 plus cults each claiming to know the mind of God. Perhaps, a meeting of the sacred and profane.

Your rant on the Septuagint fails to meet the Burden of Proof and remains just like the inane Pub 78 comment, a defining moment for your posting history or should we say it is beyond belief. Unfortunately, given the illogical and substantive bankrupt nature of this post one has low expectations for ensuing comments.

Pub 78 has grown dramatically since I last viewed it in 1998 and I would venture to say based on internal documents the entities now exceed 100,000. The agency keeps statistics on these Pubs and under FOIA one can see studies have been rendered. You can also obtain the F 990 under FOIA.

Suggest you have a grasp of the subject matter before embarrassing yourself again with your comment on Pub 78. Don't be lazy check out my contentions as they are verifiable. Perhaps one of your buddies whose approbation you constantly seek and need can assist you in this endeavor as the IRS personnel are friendly and will even explain how the process works and provide you with statistical analysis to facilitate your progress.

I trust that this will disabuse you from any obvious knowledge deficiencies that might exist .I try to enlighten you on these spiritual affairs and the friendly folks at the IRS will assist in the world of Caesar.

Good night and God bless

[Judith Anne]

Is that what you call what you were doing?

[CynicalBear]

>>Just another lovely Christian comment from our Protestant brother CB. Thanks for confirming my opinion.<<

Hey, if he believes he needs to work to earn his salvation why would I want to argue with him?

Shall we look at some of your comments?

“You’d better stick with the dispy caucus, where that lame junk belongs.”
“Oh, right, that “rightly dividing” junk. Meaning, interpret it my way or else.”
“I don't believe you have the ability to repent to Christ.”
“That would be a great illustration of a fake Christian.”
“When there's a protestant dogpile, it's hard to keep track of who you want to bite and who you can't stand the taste of.”
“This is another of smvoice’s stupid infantile games.”
“Are you nuts?”
“Not that I particularly care how stupid the opposition makes itself look” “You may not have recently fallen off a turnip truck, but there appear to be hay seeds in your hair.” Are those your version of “lovely Christian comments”? Should we take notes? Those were only taken from this thread!

[Cronos]

However, what your boatbum group doesn't do is believe in God's complete Word -- it is incomplete, a sad little incomplete faith of those who think that by singing and dancing and shaking they will be able to chase away their fear of the inexorable.

It's terribly sad seeing your group worshipping it's god in the mirror.

[metmom]

I think we can pretty well conclude that those who wish to subjugate the Holy Scriptures do so because they know the Scriptures prove their own doctrines to be false.

I can see no other reason myself.

There cannot be any other reason for not taking Scripture as authoritative, as it should be expected to by by default if God breathed.

If one truly believed that Scripture was inspired by God considering it to be authoritative would be the only natural and logical conclusion one could reach.

[Cronos]

Then, Jesus and the Apostles referred to the Deuterocanonicals and they are referred to in the New Testament — unlike Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, which were never quoted in the New Testament.