All Souls' Day: Praying for the dead is a Christian duty

Southern Fried Catholicism ^ | 11/2/2011 | Brad Noel

[rzman21]

And St. Gregory the Great concurs with St. Augustine's testimony about Matthew's gospel. "Each one will be presented to the Judge exactly as he was when he departed this life. Yet, there must be a cleansing fire before judgement,because of some minor faults that may remain to be purged away. Does not Christ,the Truth,say that if anyone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit he shall not be forgiven 'either in this world or in the world to come'(Mt. 12:32)? From this statement we learn that some sins can be forgiven in this world and some in the world to come. For, if forgiveness is refused for a particular sin, we conclude logically that it is granted for others. This must apply, as I said, to slight transgressions." Gregory the Great[regn. A.D. 590-604],Dialogues,4:39(A.D. 594),in FC,39:248

[Responsibility2nd]

“St. Augustine teaches ....”

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That’s as far as I read. WOULD IT HELPED IF I SHOUT?

I’ve already told you I’m not interested in Catholic dogma.

[Responsibility2nd]

The Catholic Church is the New Testament Church. BTW, it looks like you just called your own theology manmade.

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Wrong and wrong. The Catholic Church didn’t show up until the 3rd Century. And I’ve already made my claim that my Christianity is based on God’s perfect Word. And not the word of some pope. Yet you have the audacity to claim the Bible is a manmade theology?

[SoothingDave]

Do you believe God regards ignorance as a virtue.

It is one thing to have an intellectual disagreement with another’s doctrine.

But quite another to hold close a doctrine whose answer to inquiry is to hold one’s fingers in one’s ears and shout “nyah nyah nyah I can’t hear you!”

[guitarplayer1953]

"It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins."

If one is saved then one is released from sin at death and if one is not saved all the prayer in the world will do them no good. For it is appointed once to live and die and then the judgment.

[irishtenor]

***{12:46} Therefore, it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins.***

If that is all there is to saving someone, let’s all fall to our knees and pray, so that ALL MEN, living or dead, will be released from their sins. No need for Jesus to die. No need to believe in Jesus as your savior. Just make sure someone prays for your sins to be released. Maybe make it a section of your will, that whoever prays hardest gets the most money.

[AGreatPer]

As an alter boy 60 years ago I never understood this day.

I remember asking the priest, are some souls stuck in Limbo and can we help get them out?

[SoothingDave]

So, if I follow you correctly, anyone who prays is announcing to the world that he doesn’t need Jesus?

Interesting.

Or maybe, just maybe, give it a thought. Maybe people pray because they realize they need God’s mercy and there is no way they can earn it.

[irishtenor]

Wow, that came out of left field. That’s not what I am saying at all.

[SoothingDave]

Really? So when you pray it’s not because you believe prayer is all that there is to saving someone?

Why do you assume then, that others believe that prayer has no relation to God or Jesus or the Cross or anything else?

If we really believed prayer for the dead was a magic incantation that saved anyone despite their life choices and with no relation to Jesus, you might have a point.

Unfortunately, Catholicism is not the caricature found on too many websites and comic books.

[rzman21]

2 Maccabees is scripture.

[sayuncledave]

knarf,
when attempting to pick apart a scriptural dissertation, your best bet is likely to involve point-by-point matters of context and interpretation, rather than “your every point is false.” These aren’t my points, regardless. They belong to a website, to whom I gave proper credit. But more importantly, they belong to the Church.

Regarding Luke, chapter 16, you may want to read some good Bible commentary. Try Catena Aurea.

If you read but three of all those scriptural citations, you skimmed, and in honesty, defeated any chance of gaining understanding. My intent was to give you, and others, a scriptural foundation for why we pray for the poor souls in Purgatory. This does not mean that I expect you to necessarily agree, only that I wished to convey information, in hopes of openmindedness.

While I get the general gist of your analogy, please remember, since I have five kids, 257.98 might very well be our groceries. ;)

Seriously, I do question authority, in the proper setting. However, the authority we’re currently talking about was given by the second person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ. His authority I’ll happily take any day, and gladly die for, if He so desires. I am far from perfect. But no matter whether you agree with me or disagree with me, one thing remains: I am His, and will always strive to be so. Question governments, newspapers, people on the street? Sure, and I will be right there with you, and give my utmost support. Totally, and literally. The line stops with Him, though. I am not fit to question Him.

[rzman21]

Oh really. I have the audacity to say that you place yourself and your conscience above scripture and that you create your own manmade theology. Aren't you you your OWN Pope? It seems like you have declared ex cathedra about your interpretation of the Bible. St. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Smyrneans c. 105 AD Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. So much for your theory that the Catholic Church didn't start until the 3rd century. Yours well started in the 17th century if you are a Baptist or in the 20th if you are Nondenominational "Bible" Christian.

[rzman21]

READ the interpretations of the scriptures contained therein! Or have you declared yourself your own Pope? Maybe you should read Titus 3:10-11 when it comes your own private rulings about scripture. αἱρετικὸν ἄνθρωπον μετὰ μίαν καὶ δευτέραν νουθεσίαν παραιτοῦ, "A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:[11] Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment."

[irishtenor]

I will make this as simple as I can: my prayers to God will not remove one single sin from any man, living or dead.

[irishtenor]

Then obey it. Pray for the removal of all sin so that all men can have themselves released from sin. That’s all you have to do. Just pray, and all mankind is free from sin.

[narses]

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[netmilsmom]

>>Praying for the dead suggests that once they pass this life that we, or they, can alter their just reward<<

God has no time. You put the limitation of the Earth going around the Sun on God. God is outside of time and your prayers for a living soul has nothing to do with his/her earthly body.

Everlasting life is a promise from God. Not everlasting but asleep or everlasting in suspended animation, it’s everlasting. Period.

[Rashputin]

Start in Jeremiah and read through to James. Maybe you'll get a clue.

[Rashputin]

"I will make this as simple as I can: my prayers to God will not remove one single sin from any man, living or dead."

And the Catholic Church doesn't teach that our prayers will remove any sins or that they could. If there are Catholics people who think so, they don't understand what the Church teaches any better non-Catholics who accept whatever falsehoods they hear as if they were fact.

Prayers for the dead are prayers for the Father to have further mercy on those who are being purified and to make that purification process as short and painless as possible in keeping with the perfect Justice of God. Christ sacrificing Himself for us forgave all of our sins if we accept Christ as God, and that's the only way any sin is removed from us. Our prayers can't remove anything but they can petition the Father for further mercy, that's all. The sins we've committed and continue to commit mix all sorts of impurities in with the pure gold we were created from.

We still have to be refined before we can enter heaven and just like there are various grades of ore there are various grades of obedience to bearing our cross in this life. Obedience in this life drives out impurities the same way ore passing through a stamping mill is broken down so many types of impurities can be separated and shaken loose prior to the the ore going into the furnace. The impurities that remain are handled in the fire of the final refining process, and that final process is what became known as purgatory. Prayers for those who need further refining are petitions for further mercy from God the Father, not prayers anyone expects to remove any sin.

They're prayers we can reasonably expect our Father might respond to and ease the pain of the refining process or shorten the duration of that process for the ones we're praying for. Is that reduction in severity or duration a removal of any sins? No, in no way, God is perfectly Just and you will pay every bit you owe, but God is also Merciful and will reward those who have sufficient faith in His Mercy to pray that He will grant Mercy to those who are suffering.