Romney on his work as a Mormon missionary: “We didn’t convert one person”

Reuters.com ^ | Dec. 21, 2011

[Colofornian]

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney appeared on MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Tuesday, where co-host Joe Scarborough asked him about his experience as a Mormon missionary in France in the 1960s. “Talk about your rejections as a missionary knocking on door, after door, after door in a hostile environment,” Scarborough asked.

Romney recalled five months he spent in one French city, where he said near-constant brush-offs built his resilience:

“We knocked on doors from morning until quite late in the evening,” he said. “We didn’t convert one person in five months. So, you understand the rejection, you know that’s a pretty high level of rejection and you get used to it. You say, ‘okay, what do I believe, what’s important to me,’ and you don’t measure yourself and your success by how other people react, but instead by how you’re doing and how you feel about the things you care about.”

Watch the clip...(Romney speaks about his experience as a missionary starting at the 2:00 mark):

[T. P. Pole]

It isn’t so unbelievable when you are trying to sell something that people don’t want.

On my mission I served in one city for about three months. It had a population around 12,000 people. We kept “tracting records” listing which streets and housed we had knocked on. After several weeks we had knocked on every door in that city. With nothing but farmland and open grassland around us, we had no choice but to return to areas we had already visited. Because of the tracting records, we were able to only knock on doors that had not been opened before.

By the time I was transfered we had gotten a door opened and a negative response from something around 95% of the town. Don’t think we got past the second discussion with any of the contacts.

However, we did have a baptism of a lady that lived in the same apartment building that we lived in. Didn’t meet her through tracting.

My mission had a average baptism rate under 2 per missionary per (two-year) mission. Europe is this way. Other parts of the world have averages in the double-digits per missionary per month. I was fortunate to be a part of the conversion of many times the mission average. Not a single one came from door knocking.

[dragonblustar]

Are mormon missionaries suppose to be driving while on their mission? Do male mormons serve only one year? Do they get to have lavished apartments? Does the Mormon church pretend such things don’t happen?

[dragonblustar]

By the way, what is the Mormon Church’s official explanation of Joseph Smith? Did he have a polygamist marriage resulting in multiple children? Did he marry a woman who was already married?

[Arthur McGowan]

“Besides, the Bible knows NOTHING of proselyting other than what Jesus told the Pharisees about their legalistic proselytizing...”

Huh??? What???

Didn’t Jesus say something to the Apostles about going into all nations to teach, baptizing in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

[Colofornian]

I should have said the New Testament rather the Bible.

For there were proselytes in the Old Testament -- and a few of those references (Gentiles who became Jews) carried over into the New Testament (see Acts 2:10; 13:43)...Greek word proselytos.

Otherwise, Jesus assigns it as a highly negative/perjorative word in Matthew 23:15.

And it's not mentioned in any other book of the New Testament.

Proselyting to a religion is not the same thing as proclaiming the Good News (the Gospel), which the Holy Spirit utilizings to transform people and bring them into a born-from-above experience.

You won't find the Greek word proselytos ever used in the New Testament to define a Christian convert.

[T. P. Pole]

Are mormon missionaries suppose to be driving while on their mission? Do male mormons serve only one year? Do they get to have lavished apartments? Does the Mormon church pretend such things don’t happen?

Most missions have church owned cars that will be assigned to various companionships. Usually based on the area they are serving and the availability of public transportation. Mission rules allow for the driving of these church owned cars.

The length of mission service has varied over the years. In modern times it has run from 3 years for foreign language to 18 months during the Carter depression years. It is currently 2 years. I think Romney served something like 27 months, so there might have been a foreign language extension in there somewhere, but I don't know for sure about that.

Each mission usually has a "mission home" where the mission president lives. Each mission also has a "mission office" where the administrative/management stuff happens. Sometimes they are in the same building. From what I understand, at this time in this mission the mission home, mission office, and missionary "appartments" for the office staff were all in the same building. By doing that it makes sense to have a bigger place. Although the description seems to make it out as a bit more "lavish" then one would normally expect.

On my mission I lived in everything from a single-room dinky apartment with a building-shared toilet to a "lavish" duplex with 3 bedrooms (for just 2 missionaries). The mission home was very nice (sort of an upper-middle class suburb home here in the states).

Not sure what "pretending" you are thinking about.

[Elsie]

As we don’t know the specifics of the other areas, the article is misleading.

Huh?

As we don’t know the ANYTHING about LAMANITES or other tribes mentioned, the BoM is misleading.

[Elsie]

As we don’t know the specifics of the other areas, the article is misleading.

Huh?

As we don’t know the ANYTHING about LAMANITES or other tribes mentioned, the BoM is misleading.

[Elsie]

Golly!

I’d think a person would talk about the converts that they DID get!

[Elsie]

Yup, and one of the most mis-leading headlines you can get. Funny what bias does to people.

Now THAT I can agree with wholeheartedly!!!

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

Are mormon missionaries suppose to be driving while on their mission?
Do male mormons serve only one year?
Do they get to have lavished apartments?
Does the Mormon church pretend such things don’t happen?

Son; y'all needs to read The RULES!

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The Rules

1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
4. Don't debate or argue.
5. Center your mind on your mission.
6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
7. Cut your hair regularly.
8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
9. Be neat and clean.
10. Bathe frequently.
11. Use deodorant.
12. Polish your shoes.
13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
18. Exercise regularly.
19. Write in your journal regularly.
20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
36. Do not go on road trips.
37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
38. Do not watch television.
39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
40. Do not listen to the radio.
41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
42. Do not participate in musical groups.
43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
45. Do not engage in contact sports.
46. Do not engage in water sports.
47. Do not engage in winter sports.
48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
51. Do not embark on a private boat.
52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
53. Do not handle firearms.
54. Do not handle explosives.
55. Do not swim.
56. Do not play full court basketball.
57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
59. You may play half-court basketball.
60. Never be alone.
61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
62. Be loyal to your companion.
63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
64. Pray with your companion every day.
65. Study with your companion every day.
66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
72. Do not arise before your companion.
73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
77. Do not flirt.
78. Do not date.
79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
90. Do not telephone parents
91. Do not telephone relatives.
92. Do not telephone friends.
93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
98. Obey all mission rules.
99. Obey the laws of the land.
100. Do not get involved in politics.
101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
102. Do not give any information about the area.
103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
108. Be courteous.
109. Provide community service.
110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
114. Keep your housing unit clean.
115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
121. Maintain your health.
122. Eat a healthy diet.
123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
124. Follow the approved exercise program.
125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
129. Be immunized.
130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
131. Budget your money carefully.
132. Keep a record of what you spend.
133. Do not spend more than your companion.
134. Do not loan money.
135. Do not borrow money.
136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
141. Be a frugal photographer.
142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
147. Do not drive without a license.
148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
149. Do not drive members’ cars.
150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
155. Drive defensively.
156. Wear your seat belt.
157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
160. Know bicycle safety rules.
161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

[Sherman Logan]

To a non-Christian you are splitting hairs. “Proclaiming the good news,” to them, is by definition proselytizing for the Christian religion.

Proselytize: to try to convert (a person), especially to one’s religion.

Jesus actually never used the English word in question, as he spoke in Aramaic, and probably Greek on occasion.

So, IMO, while he used the word negatively, he most definitely ordered his followers to implement the concept. He was not speaking negatively of proselyting, BTW, he was speaking negatively of the Pharisees who practiced it. He was not, however, denouncing them because they attempted to convert others.

[Sherman Logan]

56 thru 59 are a bit odd.

Most seem like pretty good advice for someone in this position.

[Osage Orange]

# Do not play full court basketball.

# Do not play basketball in leagues.

# Do not play basketball in tournaments.

# You may play half-court basketball.

I liked this part........

[Tennessee Nana]

Of 350 they can assume a 10% success rate of open doors turning suspects into prospects.
_______________________________________

the Jehovah Witnesses knock on 700 doors before they find a sucker errr suspect...

[Tennessee Nana]

Don’t think we got past the second discussion with any of the contacts.
___________________________________

OK Tadpole...

heres your chance to redeem yourself a bit...

1. Whats the first “discussion” about/include ???

2. Whats the second “discussion” about/include ???

[Tennessee Nana]

I’d think a person would talk about the converts that they DID get!
____________________________________

Just got home from Christimas shopping with a Christian friend...

She just happens to be black...

(and well knowledgable about Mormonism..)

We discussed this post...

and as she has been one several Christian missions over the years some for weekends others for weeks or months,

I asked her how many “conversions” she had witnessed...

She told me that she always saw several even on short weekend trips...

Oh dear

the “seed of Cain” does better than the white and delightsome Willie Mitty..

Her reason for that is ...Mormonism is of darkness and the devil and people reject it...

While embracing the light of Truth that is in the Gospel of the LORD Jesus Christ of the Bible...

Oh dear...again...

A FEMALE “seed of Cain” has more Godly wisdom than the white and delightsome Mormon “priesthood holders”

[T. P. Pole]

Oh wow, it's been years. And they actually changed the format of the discussions while I was out. I started with the modified "rainbows", complete with Mr Brown. Then our mission was a pilot for the new discussions, and then finally we officially got the "new" discussions which were slightly different from the pilot version. These all pre-date the Preach My Gospel program that is in use today.

The rainbows (I think they were called the uniform standard for teaching the gospel, or something like that) had six or seven discussions, depending on the timeframe you served. While I was out it was six lessons.

The first was something about God's plan. There is a God (and his nature), the role of Christ in the plan (the atonement and resurrection), the role of prophets in God's plan (God's spokesperson, including modern-day prophets), Joseph Smith was one of these prophets, the Book of Mormon and it's role in God's plan (second witness of Christ), the role of the Holy Ghost in God's plan (He testifies of truth, including the truth of the BoM). A BoM was given out during this discussion with encouragement to read from it. We also often included instructions on how to pray (address God, "we thank thee", "we ask thee", "in the name of Jesus Christ, amen").

The second went into further details on Christ's role. Why there was a need for a Savior, and how He filled that role. Faith, repentance, baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, and a challenge to accept Christ through baptism.

Back then these discussions were memorized. The pilot program changed that to a list of discussion points, and encouraged allowing the promptings of the Holy Ghost to lead you through the topics to be covered.

Not quite sure how sharing this redeems me in your eyes. Heck, we were going door to door nearly begging people to listen to us.

If I remember, the third was on the restoration of the Gospel though Joseph Smith, the fourth was on the plan of salvation and eternal progression, the fifth was on the commandments (including the "word of wisdom"), the sixth was more on Christ and the LDS's church's role in bringing us to Christ. Things like temple work and missionary work were discussed here.

[Tennessee Nana]

I started with the modified “rainbows”, complete with Mr Brown.
________________________________________

??????????????????????????

[T. P. Pole]

That’s what they were called. They were terrible. They were laid out in a role playing format. You made a statement (Jesus Christ created the world, for example), sometimes showed a scripture about it, then asked a question. Sample questions were provided, and poor Mr Brown was the person most often asked the question. Each discussion was printed on different colored paper, hence the nickname rainbow.