Posted on 01/02/2012 3:13:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Seriously? Its from 2007.
He backed off from the statement later.
I don’t see the point of all the rotton fruit fights lately!
Catholics can call up twist many passages that prove their point and Protestants can do the same
So were the Apostles.
Point I was trying to make without offending anyone is that scripture states none of the nonsense being discussed.
Yep
Yep
From the church that NEVER CHANGES....dates mean nothing
Sorry. On this one there is no Scripture to justify calling their priests *father*.
Jesus’ command was clearly stated.
IBTZ?
Agreed. I wonder where they came up with that?
As Mark Twain wrote: “Man is the only animal that has the one true religion - several of them”
Ooo, ooo, ooo,
me too, me too...
IBTZ
What Orthodox jurisdiction do you belong to?
The seat of the Church moved when the power-mad Pope in Rome was excommunicated from the Church, in 1054.
>>The Ecumenical Patriarch only spoke for himself in 1054. Much of the rest of the East remained in communion with the Pope of Rome for centuries afterward.
The Patriarchate of Antioch is a prime example, as Patriarch Peter III attempted to mediate the split between Rome and Constantinople without much success. The schism wasn’t complete until 1729 when my Melkite Church separated from Orthodoxy for political reasons.
The Filioque is an orthodox theologoumena as long as the some of the ambiguities found in the Scholastics are avoided, as St. Maximos the Confessor writes:
he following is St Maximus’ Letter to Marinus as found in Migne, PG 91:136.
Those of the Queen of Cities [Constantinople] have attacked the synodal letter of the present very holy Pope, not in the case of all the chapters that he has written in it, but only in the case of two of them. One relates to the theology [of the Trinity] and according to this, says ‘the Holy Spirit also has his ekporeusis from the Son.’
The other deals with the divine incarnation. With regard to the first matter, they [the Romans] have produced the unanimous evidence of the Latin Fathers, and also of Cyril of Alexandria, from the study he made of the gospel of St John. On the basis of these texts, they have shown that they have not made the Son the cause of the Spirit — they know in fact that the Father is the only cause of the Son and the Spirit, the one by begetting and the other by procession — but that they have manifested the procession through him and have thus shown the unity and identity of the essence.
They [the Romans] have therefore been accused of precisely those things of which it would be wrong the accuse them, whereas the former [the Byzantines] have been accused of those things it has been quite correct to accuse them [Monothelitism].
In accordance with your request I have asked the Romans to translate what is peculiar to them (the ‘also from the Son’) in such a way that any obscurities that may result from it will be avoided. But since the practice of writing and sending [the synodal letters] has been observed, I wonder whether they will possibly agree to doing this. It is true, of course, that they cannot reproduce their idea in a language and in words that are foreign to them as they can in their mother-tongue, just as we too cannot do.
http://www.monachos.net/content/patristics/patristictexts/185
As far as the lack of Catholic apostolic succession is concerned, no Orthodox ecumenical council has ever ruled against the validity of Catholic holy orders.
The fact is jurisdictions like the Orthodox Church in America, Greek Archdiocese, etc. receive Catholic convert clergy by vesting without reordination.
I never became Orthodox because they can’t even agree among themselves about the validity of non-Orthodox sacred mysteries among other issues.
Some like the more rigorist types in Orthodoxy say that all non-Orthodox are graceless and damned even if they have faith.
If there ever was a body of writing that would encourage one to run far and fast away from Christians, this is it.
It’s also the most entertaining thread I’ve read in a long time.
The local Catholic diocese is the fullness of the Church unto itself under the rule of its bishop.
Vatican II’s document Lumen Gentium says:
Bishops, therefore, with their helpers, the priests and deacons, have taken up the service of the community, (11*) presiding in place of God over the flock,(12*) whose shepherds they are, as teachers for doctrine, priests for sacred worship, and ministers for governing.(13*) And just as the office granted individually to Peter, the first among the apostles, is permanent and is to be transmitted to his successors, so also the apostles’ office of nurturing the Church is permanent, and is to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops. (14*) Therefore, the Sacred Council teaches that bishops by divine institution have succeeded to the place of the apostles, (15*) as shepherds of the Church, and he who hears them, hears Christ, and he who rejects them, rejects Christ and Him who sent Christ.(149)(16*)
21. In the bishops, therefore, for whom priests are assistants, Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Supreme High Priest, is present in the midst of those who believe. For sitting at the right hand of God the Father, He is not absent from the gathering of His high priests,(17*) but above all through their excellent service He is preaching the word of God to all nations, and constantly administering the sacraments of faith to those who believe, by their paternal functioning.(150) He incorporates new members in His Body by a heavenly regeneration, and finally by their wisdom and prudence He directs and guides the People of the New Testament in their pilgrimage toward eternal happiness. These pastors, chosen to shepherd the Lord’s flock of the elect, are servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God,(151) to whom has been assigned the bearing of witness to the Gospel of the grace of God,(152) and the ministration of the Spirit and of justice in glory.(153)
For the discharging of such great duties, the apostles were enriched by Christ with a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit coming upon them,(154) and they passed on this spiritual gift to their helpers by the imposition of hands,(155) and it has been transmitted down to us in Episcopal consecration.(18*) And the Sacred Council teaches that by Episcopal consecration the fullness of the sacrament of Orders is conferred, that fullness of power, namely, which both in the Church’s liturgical practice and in the language of the Fathers of the Church is called the high priesthood, the supreme power of the sacred ministry.(19*) But Episcopal consecration, together with the office of sanctifying, also confers the office of teaching and of governing, which, however, of its very nature, can be exercised only in hierarchical communion with the head and the members of the college. For from the tradition, which is expressed especially in liturgical rites and in the practice of both the Church of the East and of the West, it is clear that, by means of the imposition of hands and the words of consecration, the grace of the Holy Spirit is so conferred,(20*) and the sacred character so impressed,(21*) that bishops in an eminent and visible way sustain the roles of Christ Himself as Teacher, Shepherd and High Priest, and that they act in His person.(22*) Therefore it pertains to the bishops to admit newly elected members into the Episcopal body by means of the sacrament of Orders.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
“Because these Churches, although separated, have true sacraments and above all – because of the apostolic succession – the priesthood and the Eucharist, by means of which they remain linked to us by very close bonds”[13], they merit the title of “particular or local Churches”[14], and are called sister Churches of the particular Catholic Churches.[15]”
>>The Orthodox largely adhere to St. Cyprian of Carthage’s view that those who leave the Orthodox Catholic Church of Christ are devoid of God’s grace and that their prayers are worthless for their salvation.
Roman Catholics, however, follow St. Augustine’s teaching that God confers grace in the sacraments, so not even schism invalidates a properly conferred sacrament.
I'm seeing some to whom even "church" is divisive, if it means anything similar to the common use of the word.
"I am the church"… and you're not, seems to be the mantra.
Are you ok,dear Sister?
Please feel free to freepmail me.
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