Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: CynicalBear

Re Luke 22:24: The Lord here is not rejecting authority, which Scripture establishes, both positional and spiritual, but is rejecting the presupposition that the former constitute greatness.

Pastors are definitely not to lord it over others as after the manner of the Gentiles/the world which the Lord referred to, and position does not means preeminence in the sight of God, rather than one that serves in faith, and thus “every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.” (1 Corinthians 3:8)

There is the parable of a wealthy pastor with a large flock, and one night the pastor had a dream. In his dream he saw many different sized crowns hovering over his congregation - from big crowns to a miniature sized crown.

As crowns began to descend and rest upon certain members, the pastor, being mindful of his large congregation and the esteem it brought him among others, presumed the largest crown would rest upon him. However, to his chagrin it was the smallest crown that rested upon his head, while the largest crown descended upon the head of a little old lady - “holy Helen” some called her - who spent her days in fastings and prayers for the pastor and the flock - though that was unbeknown to most.

The pastor was perplexed and was somewhat offended, and so he asked the Lord “Why?” To which the answer came, “Listen. The reason I am still using YOU is because of HER.”

After the Lord Himself, i see the model for manifest leadership being Moses and Paul, both of whom were revelators of covenants with the single most contributors to their respective testaments (i don’t buy the JEDP hypothesis). And who were willing to be damned if it could secure the salvation of their people, and labored day and night more than others in service to God on their behalf, though they were largely rejected because of it. (And Paul’s words in such places as 2 Cor. 11-12 regarding that were not due to feelings of inferiority, as some charge, but was an heartfelt attempt to rescue his deceived flock from self-proclaimed apostles deceivers by manifesting who really was an apostle and who really care for their soul).

But it is clear in Scripture that God upholds the principal of authority, both in the civil realm (1Tim. 2:2) as well and the home and church, as the Trinity itself examples. (1Cor. 11:3) And as pastoral position is one of authority, thus women are excluded from that function over men (1Tim. 2:12) though not as being spiritually inferior in Christ.

Those who are in such position have a commission to care for the flock, and which includes discipline, in union with the flock, in manifest subjection upon Scripture and the qualifications for such, and not as an infallible autocratic leaders.

Thus, in that context, believers are enjoined to obey them that oversee them, (Heb. 13:17) and pastor Titus was to “speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.” (Titus 2:15) and likewise Timothy was to “reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2Tim. 4:2) For as in a family, which pastoring is likened to, (1Tim. 3:4,5) the same hand that hugs must sometime spank. But no one can claim authority unless they are Scripturally established, in conformity to Scripture and its qualifications for establishing such.


1,737 posted on 01/19/2012 12:09:03 PM PST by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1695 | View Replies ]


To: daniel1212
>> Re Luke 22:24: The Lord here is not rejecting authority,<<

I would contend that He was at least to the extent that there was to be no hierarchy (ie rulership) within the church. I find it interesting that you haven’t given any passage that outlines any hierarchy. That is of course because there is none. The church as Jesus set it up has no hierarchy or rulership other than Him. Here are some thoughts on the verses you sited.

1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

That was referencing strictly secular leadership.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

There is no hierarchy (ie secular type rulers) in the church. All stewardshipo positions mentioned are the “servant” type positions. All Greek words used indicate those responsible for teaching etc are those who are older (elder) more mature in the faith. Even when a difference is to be taken to “the church” it means to be taken to the “group of believers” as a whole rather than to some “ruler” or “headship” if you will.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

That lines up with the Christ is the head of the husband and the husband is head of the wife. There can be no assumption of leadership within the church from that.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

2 Tim. 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

All believers are given that directive.

1,742 posted on 01/19/2012 4:14:00 PM PST by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1737 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson