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How can Jesus & Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters & purposes are so utterly opposed?
Lds.org (official site) ^ | June 1986 | Jess L. Christensen (via lds.org/Ensign)

Posted on 01/31/2012 11:48:42 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

June 1986 I HAVE A QUESTION

I Have a question

I've noticed a trend for newlyweds to have elaboratevexpensive wedding receptions. Is this necessary particularly for a temple marriage?

...

How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?

Jess L. Christensen, Institute of Religion director at Utah State University, Logan Utah.

On first hearing the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ are brothers may seem surprising to some - especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel "who was in authority in the presence of God," a "son of the morning." (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25-27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer's older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)

How could two such great spirits become so totally opposite? The answer lies in the principle of agency which has existed from all eternity (D&C 93:30-31.) Of Lucifer, the scripture says that because of rebellion "he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies (Moses 4:4.) Note that he was not created evil, but became Satan by his own choice.

When our Father in Heaven presented his plan of salvation, Jesus sustained the plan and his part in it, giving the glory to God, to whom it properly belonged. Lucifer, on the other hand, sought power, honor and glory only for himself (See Isa. 14: 13-14; Moses 4:1-2.) When his modification of the Father's plan was rejected he rebelled against God and was subsequently cast out of heaven with those who had sided with him (See Rev. 12: 7-9; D&C 29: 36-37.)

That brothers would make dramatically different choices is not unusual. It has happened time and time again, as the scriptures attest: Cain chose to serve Satan; Abel chose to serve God. (See Moses 5:16-18.) Esau "despised his birthright"; Jacob wanted to honor it. (Gen. 25: 29-34.) Joseph's brothers sought to kill him; he soughtvto preserve them. (Gen. 37: 12-24; Gen. 45: 3-11.

It is ironic that the agency with which Lucifer rebelled is the very gift he tried to take from man. His proposal was that all be forced back into God's presence. (See Moses 4: 1,3.) But the principle of agency is fundamental to the existence and progression of intelligent beings.; as we make wise choices we grow in light and truth. On the other hand, wrong choices - such as the one Satan made - stop progress and can even deny us blessings that we already have. (See D&C 93: 30-36.)

In order for us to progress, therefore, we must have the opportunity to choose good or evil. Interestingly, Satan and his angels - those who opposed agency - have become the opposition. As the prophet Lehi taught "Men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself." (2 Neh. 2: 27.)

Although the Father has allowed Satan and his angels to tempt mankind, he has given each of us the ability to rise above temptation (See 1 Cor. 10:13.) He has also given us the grrat gift of the atonement. When the Lord placed enmity between Eve's children and the devil, Satan was told that he would bruise the heel of Eve's seed, but her seed would bruise his head (See Moses 4:21.) President Joseph Fielding Smith explained that "The 'God of Peace' who according to the scriptures is to bruise Satan is Jesus Christ." ( Answers to Gospel Questions, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957; 1:3.)

Satan would bruise the Saviors' heel by leading men to crucify Him. But through his death and resurrection, Christ overcame death for all of us; and through his atonement, he offers each of us a way to escape the eternal ramifications of sin. Thus, Satan's machinations have been frustrated and eventually he will be judged, bound, and castbinto hell forever (See Rev. 20: 1-10; D&C 29:26-29.)

In Hebrew, the word bruise means "to crush or grind." Therefore, the very heel that was bruised will crush Satan and will help us overcome the world and return to our Father. As we use our agency to choose good over evil, the atonement of Christ prepares the way for us to return to our Father in Heaven.

We can only imagine the sorrow of our Heavenly Father as he watched a loved son incite and lead a rebellion and lose his opportunity for exaltation. But we can also imagine the Fathers love and rejoicing as he welcomed back the beloved son who had valiantly and perfectly fought the battles of life and brought about the great Atonement through his suffering and death.

The Primary lessons in the manual never seem long enough. As a teacher, I always finishvbefore class time ends. What is appropriate for me to do?

...

Why does D&C 104:1 say that the united order was an everlasting order until the Lord comes, yet it is not practiced today?

...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: elections; foxnews; hannity; inman; lds; mormonism; mormontruthfile; obama; romney; romneytruthfile; seanhannity
After clicking on the URL, be sure to immediately print the entire page, for possible later discussion per re-posting for whatever reason, and for personal study at ones's leisure.

1.) There are four "I have a question's" on this page. In that regard, this is an excerpt. Given that the focus of this is on but one of the questions, I did not click "excerpt."

2.) When you go to google or the Google homepage and type in "lds.org" it says "Official site. Online scriptures and library, media contact information, online distribution center,..."

3.) This is at the official LDS site, and at this official LDS website is an Ensign article from June 1986. 25 years old. No decleration here that this is heresy according to the lds church, and 25 years is enough time to have tossed all of the one question as well as the answer "How can Jesus and Lucifer..." given here from that June Ensign issue if LDS considered it heresy or didn't believe in it. It could have been toosed long ago, to leave the other three questions to post to lds.org, so that it never even made it here to lds.org.

4.) Before anyone calls me a bigot, let it be known that I heard no cries of bigotry from conservatives when I talked about the Chicago Sun-Times article " I have a deep faith," a 2004 interview with Barack Obama about his belief that there are many paths to God/Heaven, and what he was asked about the scripture " I am the Way, Truth, Life. No man comes unto the Father but by me." Obama said it all depends upon how you interpret that scripture. I vehemently disagree with that answer. And Jesus supposedly being a brother to Lucifer - I also think that issue must also be explored, and is not believed in by most Christians. 5.) When a certain talk radio host talked about Obama's Black Liberation Theology, and whether he adhered to it, I don't remember conservatives saying that was religious bigotry or shouldn't be brought up for discussion. If that can be talked about, why not this? Why not both?

1 posted on 01/31/2012 11:48:46 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Lucifer” means light-bearer or something like that. They used to call old fashioned matches which struck on anything lucifers and the name used to be applied to the planet Venus. I am not aware of any relationship between the planet Venus and Jesus.


2 posted on 01/31/2012 11:53:23 AM PST by varmintman
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Wrong. According to the Bible, Jesus is not a created being but Satan, a fallen angel, is.


3 posted on 01/31/2012 11:55:38 AM PST by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
It is a lie to say that Jesus and Lucifer are ‘spirit’ brothers. Christ came to us called, Emmanuel which means God with us. Lucifer has already been condemned to death before this flesh age began. Reason why Moses would call him the ‘tree’ of the knowledge of good and evil. God did not create ‘evil’ but He says He will certainly use the ‘evil’ one if His children become ‘proud’. But Lucifer rebel because of his ‘pride’, meaning he stopped loving the creator, and decided he would be God, and a third of the Sons of God joined up with his rebellion.
4 posted on 01/31/2012 11:56:13 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

What say you?

If conservatives here had no problem with me talking about “I have a deep faith” and Obama’s spiritual beliefs in that news piece (beliefs which I believe to be false) then surely this Mormon belief is acceptable to raise, too, right?

If Talk Radio can opine on Black Liberation Theology ( which I had no problem with them talking about) then why not explore this Mormon theological belief and talk about it, too?


5 posted on 01/31/2012 11:58:04 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I think the whole question is bogus. I get the feeling the questions to a site like this are setups. They make them up out of whole cloth so they can discuss the issue.

Anybody ever met two brothers that are complete opposites?

The real question is, how can the church teach that they are brothers when the Bible says Satan is a fallen angel, a created being, and Jesus is God with us?


6 posted on 01/31/2012 11:59:32 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: beethovenfan

I agree. Lucifer is a created being.

This Mormon belief is false, just as Obama’s belief in that Sun Times article are false.


7 posted on 01/31/2012 12:01:02 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I have no problem with this thread. If I don’t like the subject of a thread, I ignore it. If the thread argues an opinion different then mine on a subject on which I have a strong opinion, I’ll jump, head first, into the deep end and let the chips fall where they may.


8 posted on 01/31/2012 12:01:24 PM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf

And forgive me for mixing metaphors. My chips got soggy when I jumped in.


9 posted on 01/31/2012 12:02:05 PM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Obama went to a church that believed and taught crazy stuff... talk radio discussed it.

Romney goes to a church that believed and teaches crazy and racist stuff... but it will probably be ignored.

Draw your own conclusions.
10 posted on 01/31/2012 12:02:37 PM PST by Minus_The_Bear
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To: cuban leaf

The Mormon church had 25 years to toss this “bogus question” from that Ensign issue. They never even had to let it in that issue, leaving the other three questions to make it to the lds.org official site. They let all four questions come into the official lds.org site.

They believe in this false doctrine.


11 posted on 01/31/2012 12:05:16 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Minus_The_Bear
Obama went to a church that believed and taught crazy stuff... talk radio discussed it. Romney goes to a church that believed and teaches crazy and racist stuff... but it will probably be ignored. Draw your own conclusions.

It really depends on how much the corrupt political establishment are tired of BamBamKennedy, Romney is the perfect transition to 'save' US... Why would not the liberals want to necklace our demise in a Republican name? Wonder which state Romney will mount a 'white horse'?

12 posted on 01/31/2012 12:06:19 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Minus_The_Bear

Surely a certain talk show host who kept talking about Black Liberation Theology would also talk about this, too? I had no problem with him talking about BLT, just as I have no problem talking about this.

Surely the statement Fair and balanced is correct, right?


13 posted on 01/31/2012 12:09:13 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. (Jn 1:1-2) No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God (Jn 1:18a).

Lucifer is a created being. Jesus is not.

14 posted on 01/31/2012 12:10:55 PM PST by Gideon7
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To: Gideon7

That’s why Mormons are not considered Christians or to be it more generously Non-Nicene Christians.


15 posted on 01/31/2012 12:14:21 PM PST by C19fan
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To: Gideon7

Correct. Jesus is Divine, uncreated. Lucifer was a created being.

Mormonism is incompatible with the true test - the Nicene Creed - and with the word of God, too.


16 posted on 01/31/2012 12:14:42 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
How can Jesus & Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters & purposes are so utterly opposed?

They can't, next question please.

17 posted on 01/31/2012 12:15:05 PM PST by ducttape45
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To: ducttape45

Gordian knot cutting, :)


18 posted on 01/31/2012 12:16:21 PM PST by C19fan
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To: ducttape45

Then why do Mormons believe this and have this on their official site if they supposedly don’t believe this doctrine?

Obama was asked about his beliefs in that 2004 interview. Obama has been hiunded with questions about Black Liberation Theology.

Should Romney be asked about his beliefs as well?

Fair and Balanced approach, right?


19 posted on 01/31/2012 12:21:12 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: beethovenfan
Jesus is not a created being...

...Begotten, not made; consubstantial with the Father...

20 posted on 01/31/2012 12:23:23 PM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"Correct. Jesus is Divine, uncreated. Lucifer was a created being. Mormonism is incompatible with the true test - the Nicene Creed - and with the word of God, too."

You're all making two of the same mistakes IMHO. First of all you're assuming that the breakway LDS sect of mormonism believes in the Christ of the bible, which they don't, and secondly you are assuming this makes sense to them, which it doesn't...they are just so brainwashed they accept it.

Breakaway LDS Sect “Prophet Seer and Revelator” Gordon B Hinckley told the world that mormons worship “ANOTHER CHRIST”.
"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, page 7 )

I am a former breakaway LDS sect "high priest" and bishopric member, having spen 35 years of my life in the deceptive, destructive, and all consuming CULT of Harry Ried and Mitt Romney. I was saved by Christ after being prepared by the FR Inmans, here during Romney's 2008 attempt to steal a second third of the national government for Salt Lake city cult leaders.

21 posted on 01/31/2012 12:26:20 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Gideon7
Many breakaway LDS sect mormons don't even know that FLDS/LDS "Prophet" Joseph Smith "retranslated" the entire bible. Even though it took him over 2 1/2 years, and Smith claimed god(s) had told him to do it, FLDS/LDS "Prophet" Brigham Young declared it a fraud after Smith's death and the LDS sect broke away from true mormonism when they discarded it. The breakaway LDS sect uses the KJV to this day, which Smith claimed god(s) told him not to use because it was corrupt.

In the JST Bible Smith made big changes to the verses you just listed. Allow me to expose them.

John 1:1-2 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.

JST version John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:18 KJV
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God.

John 1:18 JST
18 For the law was after a carnal commandment, to the administration of death; but the gospel was after the power of an endless life, through Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father.

Looks like Smith completed deleted verse 18.

LDS sect mormons EITHER can disavow Smith as a prophet OR OWN his corrupt translation of the bible, and the deserve PRECISELY ZERO wiggle room on this from TRUE CHRISTIANS !

22 posted on 01/31/2012 12:44:31 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

One runs the risk of blood atonement by posting these glimpses behind the curain. I am not sure Mittens wants us to know about this.


23 posted on 01/31/2012 12:46:50 PM PST by Acadianus (deo vindice)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

As a Christian, all I can say is what complete and utter blasphemy!


24 posted on 01/31/2012 12:46:58 PM PST by erkelly
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To: beethovenfan

If they were honest the LDS reply would be “because our founding prophet was a fraud and entirely full of s***”. Just my opinion and in no way meant to imply that Mormons don’t have a perfect right to believe whatever they choose. But the fact that somebody had to ask such a question reveals a lot.


25 posted on 01/31/2012 12:50:20 PM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: Minus_The_Bear
I will gar ran damn tee you......Romney will be fried over his mormonism.

The Dims are delighted that Mitt-toast might be the Dumb Party's pick.

They will expose mormonism for the cult that it is.

Most people in this country had NO CLUE....Obama went to a totally RACIST church.

The only guy I recall going hard on that...was Hannity.

I called my local GOP HQ's the other day. Told them I'm done being a Republican...if Romney get's the nod. @#^$%^!! them.....!!!

26 posted on 01/31/2012 12:55:14 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Simple: It’s blasphemy to equate the Savior with a liar and created being.

-J.S. (The mormon church is insane).


27 posted on 01/31/2012 12:56:19 PM PST by JSDude1 (NEWT 2012!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Jesus and the Father are one in the same “ If you have seen me you have seen the Father “


28 posted on 01/31/2012 2:41:13 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

An attack on true Christian believers.


29 posted on 01/31/2012 3:04:36 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E


30 posted on 01/31/2012 3:29:11 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Jesus was and is GOD.

Lucifer was and is only and angel who failed a test and took a third of the angels with him.

Read Revelation


31 posted on 01/31/2012 4:53:20 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You just don’t get it do you? Mormonism is a CULT, it is not a Christian entity. No matter what Romney, Beck or the MSM say, it is a cult. It is not grounded on biblical principles, never has been.


32 posted on 01/31/2012 6:25:46 PM PST by ducttape45
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Thank you for posting this. It speaks volumes about what the LDS really believe vs. their canned ‘testimonies’ outsiders so often hear.


33 posted on 01/31/2012 8:07:08 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, Now Christian - "I wasn't brainwashed, just brain pre-soaked.")
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To: ducttape45

I do get it.

I have already said that Mormonism is incompatible with the Nicene Creed and the Word of God.

Mormonism is not Christian by any stretch of the imagination.


34 posted on 01/31/2012 9:00:15 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Salvation

I agree with all that you say.

This thread was to rip the mask off of Mormonism.


35 posted on 01/31/2012 9:01:32 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: F15Eagle

Thanks for posting that vid which nails it on the head.


36 posted on 01/31/2012 9:03:35 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: reaganaut

No problem.


37 posted on 01/31/2012 9:05:59 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr-lQCaq318&feature=related


38 posted on 01/31/2012 9:54:45 PM PST by StPaulRevert
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=7S4k9R4QvE8


39 posted on 01/31/2012 9:57:34 PM PST by StPaulRevert
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To: StPaulRevert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2md1Qftl1Q


40 posted on 01/31/2012 10:06:58 PM PST by StPaulRevert
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
For those who are wondering about Romney:

Find out about a cult

41 posted on 01/31/2012 10:25:38 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Wow this is crazy Joseph Smith was nothing more than a con artist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTtQTz7O1Xg


42 posted on 01/31/2012 11:07:16 PM PST by StPaulRevert
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIb8vxf9dSY

For a limited time, watch the film in it’s entirety! NOTE: Please pass this on to everyone you know! Feel free to download it, burn your own DVD copies, and pass them out as well! We want this film to go viral so as many people as possible can see it. We are also working on a special edition “official” DVD that will include many bonus features and and extended version of the film as well. Until then though, enjoy the film in it’s entirety on YouTube for a while

A documentary that dives into the differences between legalistic religion and true redemption found in Christ. Produced by Brad Eggerton & James Anderson.

The film was shot all over the Salt Lake Valley from 2009-2011 and includes interviews on the streets with many LDS people, along with many interviews with people who minister to the LDS, including Sandra Tanner, Shawn McCraney, Russ East, Bill McKeever, Doris Hanson, and more.


43 posted on 01/31/2012 11:21:16 PM PST by StPaulRevert
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; Tennessee Nana; ...

ping


44 posted on 02/01/2012 7:16:55 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Romney seems like a creature put on Earth to blend in with the humans and report back what he finds.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Jesus is eternal, lucifer was created - nuff said.


45 posted on 02/01/2012 7:20:56 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

mormons beleive this the same way Eve believed satan, “you to will be a god”. The draw of godhood is powerful for our sinful nature.


46 posted on 02/01/2012 7:24:26 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.

47 posted on 02/01/2012 8:06:09 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: greyfoxx39

They can’t be and aren’t.

Jesus is the only begotten of the Father. God did not beget Lucifer.

Lucifer, Satan, is a created being, not God Incarnate.

What blasphemy....


48 posted on 02/01/2012 8:23:39 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Lucifer can only do what God allows him to do. Nothing else.


49 posted on 02/01/2012 12:41:34 PM PST by crosshairs (Liberalism is to truth, what east is to west.)
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