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To: metmom

**Christ’s death alone is sufficient. If it wasn’t, Christ would not have said *It is finished*.**

He finished the requirement for sacrifice for sin. “There remaineth no more sacrifice for sin”.

**In a nutshell, anything you add to the finished work of Christ on the cross**

I didn’t ADD anything, HE laid down the requirements that make one “buried with him”, as Paul referred to it.

Jesus christ is the one who said one ‘must be born of the water and of the Spirit’, and commanded baptism at the end of Matthew and Mark. He commanded ‘that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name beginning at Jerusalem. Where is that fulfilled....Acts 2:38.

The apostles went about ‘dunking’ people just as fast as they could under awkward (Jews in the presense of Gentiles: The conversion of Cornelious and household included an order for immediate baptism ‘in the name of the Lord’), harrowing and painful (tortured and beaten Paul and Silas didn’t dilly dally), the eunuch didn’t pass up on what Philip apparently taught while riding in desert. Paul promptly RE-baptized men in Ephesus.

You’ve got to move a muscle to be born again, nomatter how you dodge the water baptism issue. Whether going to hear a preacher, making an effort to repent, making a verbal confession, or getting ‘dunked’ (You need to repent for mocking it, imo), there’s effort in being converted.

His apostles were right; and your claiming Christ yet rejecting his and his apostles words.

The eighteen wheeler is warmered up, gotta go for now. Adios.


149 posted on 02/20/2012 5:37:57 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel
Born of water = physical birth.

In context, He is talking about being born physically to Nicodemus. He never said that one had to be baptized. He used the word elsewhere so if He meant baptism in john 3, then He could have said it.

In Matthew, all He commands is that the disciples baptize. He never said that it was a requirement for salvation in that book.

The passage in Mark is controversial as to its authenticity and I see LOTS of people with lots to lose in their doctrine and theology hanging a lot of emphasis on a passage of Scripture of uncertain origin. I suppose that you also agree with the rest of that quote in Mark where Jesus finishes up by saying.....

Mark 16:15-18 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Therefore I trust that you also hold to the belief that all believers will speak in tongues, lay hands on the sick and see them healed, will pick up serpents with their hands and no deadly poison will hurt them.

I've noticed that certain groups like to use that passage to support their doctrine of baptism being necessary for salvation and ignore the rest of it (the signs that follow), while the charismatics like to use that verse to support the signs that follow but deny the necessity for baptism. Both groups pick which part of the passage to allow and disallow.

I can't recall that I've seen anyone hold to ALL that it teaches, that is the necessity of baptism for salvation and the signs which are to follow.

Salvation is a GIFT (Eph 2:8-9) and there is nothing you can do to earn it or qualify for it. There is passage after passage in the gospels where Jesus says that all one has to do is believe. The tax collector at the temple simply cried out for God's mercy and Jesus said that he want away justified. The thief on the cross didn't have time to be baptized.

Galatians 2:15-21 15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Baptism has become a work which people have added to faith in Christ so that they can feel like they did something to earn God's favor or that somehow they contributed to their own salvation somewhere, but all that does is leave room to boast. If the works of the Law didn't save, then no new work that man has decided to add to faith is going to save either.

151 posted on 02/20/2012 6:38:49 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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