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To: Quix; smvoice; boatbums; caww
I recall hearing someone once state that we are in spiritual warfare which is a truth battle not a power struggle.

It's a battle between the truth of God's word to bring men to faith in Christ and the lies of the enemy to keep men from faith in Christ.

(This is me now, not the other guy) The battleground is in the heart and mind. Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they don't know the truth. Our job is to bear witness to the truth. The truth is found in Scripture, in *It is written....*

That is all we need now. I agree that the signs that accompanied the early church believers to validate the message they were preaching are not necessary because now we have the completed canon of Scripture.

I do not believe that they have ceased altogether but are not so preeminent.

The problem I have with the whole tongues and signs movement is that people are using them as indicators of validity of a Spiritual experience without going to Scripture. By depending on them to validate some experience or teaching, it will be too easy for people to be led astray by counterfeits or fakes because they then won't be checking the teaching against Scripture but rather against the number of *signs* and experiences.

When someone gets to the point of saying *Wow, that really was from God* because of some show, like speaking in tongues being involved, they are in grave danger of being deceived because they are depending on the wrong criteria to check the teaching or experience against.

Of course Satan has not been on vacation the last 2,000, but what are the weapons of our spiritual warfare?

2 Corinthians 10:3-6 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.

Ephesians 6:13-18 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

The weapon listed is the word.

The gifts are for the edification of the body, not for spiritual warfare. The word and prayer are for the warfare.

212 posted on 02/22/2012 3:21:22 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; ...

Sorry.

I don’t buy it.

Certainly we need discernment; to pray for discernment; teach discernment.

HOWEVER,

that line of thinking essentially says that

GOD DIDN’T KNOW WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND DOING

in terms of Holy Spirit giftings and spiritual warfare.

That somehow, God got HIS priorities all messed up.

GOD established the gifts

FOR FULLY EQUIPING THE SAINTS

FOR

drum roll

SPIRITUAL WARFARE AND THE SPREAD OF THE GOSPEL.

THESE SIGNS

SHALL

FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE.

If they don’t, there’s something wrong with the belief or the practice of the belief.

GOD SAID THAT. NOT JOHN WIMBER—GOD ALMIGHTY.

AND HE MEANT IT.

Missionaries on the mission field find folks much more attuned to such realities . . . THEY KNOW what spiritual warfare with demonic forces is like. They are EXCEEDINGLY READY AND DESPERATE FOR

A POWER ENCOUNTER in John Wimber’s terms.

They want RID of the demonic forces from their person and from their families and from their villages.

Sure, the WORD is essential in all that.

So is discernment. So is miracles. So is healing.

The witch doctor engineers a healing counterfeit.

What is the Christian supposed to do? Say a few ‘hail Mary’s’, or recite a few Scriptures in a wimpy voice, shrug his shoulders and walk wimpily away with a hang-dog look, embarrassed over such a neutered response?

Desperate tribal and other people in undevloped countries NEED PRACTICAL, TANGIBLE ANSWERS AND SOLUTIONS.

They are NOT INTERESTED in theological excuses explaining how God can’t or won’t act supernaturally in their behalf in this era.

The whole idea that Holy Spirit goes around in our era muffled and in a straight jacket ONLY SERVES SATAN AND HIS KINGDOM

NOT THE CHURCH MILITANT!

NOT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!


214 posted on 02/22/2012 3:54:45 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: metmom

FOR EXAMPLE:

1. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows where the key demonized person in the village is.

2. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows what the root of the demonization is

3. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows what the root of the disease is or the block to healing or how to pray specifically for healing.

4. By a WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, one knows how to prepare in advance for an attack by the witchdoctors of a competing tribe.

5. By a prophetic declaration, the attacking enemy is laid bare and neutralized before they do any damage.

6. By a prophetic declaration, a parent is emboldened to wage successful spiritual warfare over a child in a distant location.

etc. etc.


215 posted on 02/22/2012 3:58:48 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: metmom; Quix
take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

The gifts are for the edification of the body, not for spiritual warfare. The word and prayer are for the warfare.

In no place in the book of Ephesians does Paul even mention the word "tongues". When he says we should pray at all times in the Spirit, he IS NOT speaking of the sign gift of tongues. I know this not only because of the context of the passage but because he said in his letter to the Corinthians that not everyone speaks in tongues, not everyone has that gift and that the OTHER gifts are more to be desired because they edify the church.

One more point WRT those that lure people in by a manifestation of miracles of tongues, God said, "Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith." (Jeremiah 23:31) The Bible is our authority, NOT self-proclaimed prophets. And it is the ONLY offensive weapon in our spiritual armory.

226 posted on 02/22/2012 6:35:51 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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